vaccine required?

[Steelers36]

10 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Last week I saw a man driving by himself in a convertible with the top down at about 50 MPH wearing a mask.  Now, that is taking it seriously.  🤣

Maybe it was to keep bugs from flying into his mouth and nose.

[caribill]

6 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

They're safe.  Remember, efficacy is between 90-95%, it's not 100%.   But as the article also pointed out and you so graciously didn't post:   Lynn Sutfin, spokeswoman for the state health department, told USA TODAY in an email that the positive tests represent a small fraction of 1% of the 1.7 million vaccinated across the state. Two of the three deaths occurred within three weeks of completing the vaccine, she said. All three were 65 or older.

 

 

 

But I graciously did post as I said: "even if these are a small percentage of those vaccinated."

[pms4104]

33 minutes ago, Treasure Hunter said:

NCL just stated that they will start sailing this summer with only vaccinated passengers. Only Royal Caribbean has said that under 18s can sail with a negative test. But now anyone as young as 12 can get vaccinated with Pfizer in the USA after April 19.  So even Royal Caribbean May require it. I would think that the cruise lines in an abundance of caution will require vaccination by summer for everyone who sails. The last thing they need is another shutdown.

Pfizer is already fully tested and approved for those as young as 12 ... really???

[jennybenny]

46 minutes ago, Treasure Hunter said:

NCL just stated that they will start sailing this summer with only vaccinated passengers. Only Royal Caribbean has said that under 18s can sail with a negative test. But now anyone as young as 12 can get vaccinated with Pfizer in the USA after April 19.  So even Royal Caribbean May require it. I would think that the cruise lines in an abundance of caution will require vaccination by summer for everyone who sails. The last thing they need is another shutdown.

Do you have a link to share? I’ve seen there are trials for 12 and older kids but have not heard they are allowed this month unless they are 16 and older (Pfizer)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc13.com/amp/pfizer-children-vaccine-trial-how-old-do-you-have-to-be-get-dr-flor-munoz-covid19/10491150/

[lolane1]

14 minutes ago, pms4104 said:

Pfizer is already fully tested and approved for those as young as 12 ... really???

Only age 16 and up are approved to get Pfizer.   Pfizer did make an announcement that its testing shows it is effective in kids as young as 12. However, the FDA has not approved it yet and that could take many months

[capriccio]

5 hours ago, Tak8 said:

Scientists are unsure how long protection lasts.  The last I read it was 6 months.

More than 6 months have passed since the first volunteers in the vaccine trials got their first doses.  I know the volunteers are being followed for a couple of years.  I haven't seen any comments that protection is wearing off yet. 

[pms4104]

5 minutes ago, lolane1 said:

Only age 16 and up are approved to get Pfizer.   Pfizer did make an announcement that its testing shows it is effective in kids as young as 12. However, the FDA has not approved it yet and that could take many months

My understanding as well ... hence my question.

[dog]

Personally, I would not cruise this year with unvaccinated passengers or crew. Time will tell... how outbreaks on ships will be handled.  
Also, be selective in who you believe. We don’t know enough about this virus & varients to say how long vaccines will last or if vaccinated people can still spread it. Yes, less likely, but we will wait and see. 
if you do cruise in 2021 please come back to this forum and give us an update on your experience. 

[john watson]

4 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Hardly.  Buy a lottery ticket.  More and more the info is highly unlikely.  We are never going to see 0.00% as someone can always find an exception case.

 

I think one thing people are overlooking is that vaccinated people can be totally unaffected by the infection but be carriers and in this respect might become super-spreaders.

 

Regards John

[D C]

8 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

They're safe.  Remember, efficacy is between 90-95%, it's not 100%.   But as the article also pointed out and you so graciously didn't post:   Lynn Sutfin, spokeswoman for the state health department, told USA TODAY in an email that the positive tests represent a small fraction of 1% of the 1.7 million vaccinated across the state. Two of the three deaths occurred within three weeks of completing the vaccine, she said. All three were 65 or older.

 

Vaccines aren't a silver bullet, they're to help us not get so sick that we're hospitalized and possibly die.  

The way michigan has been reporting, I don't believe that report at face value.  I believe they're still counting both PCR and antibody tests as positives.  

[lolane1]

Vaccinated people can still get Covid-19. It is not 100% guaranteed.  You probably just won't die from it.

 

According to CDC information, updated April 2: 

• A growing body of evidence suggests that fully vaccinated people are less likely to have asymptomatic infection and potentially less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others. However, further investigation is ongoing.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

 

Everyone needs to access their own risk and make their own decisions.  Personally, I am going to wait a bit more before cruising until my comfort level is reached.  I am sure this is difficult decision for many of us who love and miss cruising.

[Steelers36]

5 hours ago, john watson said:

 

I think one thing people are overlooking is that vaccinated people can be totally unaffected by the infection but be carriers and in this respect might become super-spreaders.

 

Regards John

 

After hunting up a number of sources (not a huge number), I think the article below is about the most even-handed and rational on the subject.  The common bottom line pretty much across the board is the risk is low and they really just don't know as there is no real data to say yes or no.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/7735802/can-vaccinated-people-spread-covid-19/

 

[lolane1]

Steelers 36,  I love the last line in your article. 

 

“But an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”

 

 

 

[K.T.B.]

14 hours ago, neverbeenhere said:

FYI: Vaccinated passengers could also be the source of infection for others.

 

But if all passengers and crew members are vaccinated, the effects are greatly diminished.  But this is why still needing to wear a mask is a good thing.

 

IMO, all cruise lines for the foreseeable future need to only allow vaccinated passengers and crew on board.  Period.  If only to show the world that they're serious about passenger health and safety.  Yes, this means no children temporarily until they can be vaccinated.  And mandatory vaccinated passengers and crew isn't a lifetime rule.  It's only until this pandemic is under control.  For now, this is the way it should be.

 

If people want to travel, whether by cruise or going on a land vacation, then they need be responsible.  Being vaccinated is the only way to get life back to normal.  If people don't want to be vaccinated for whatever reason they're giving, fine, but accept the consequences without complaint of not being able to travel where they want to go.

 

Personally speaking, I'm "halfway" vaccinated right now, as is my wife.  (Our second shots are in 2 weeks.)  We got vaccinated because we're both diabetic, plus my wife is over 65.  It's for our health, not just to be able to travel.  Being able to travel again is just a fringe benefit of getting stuck.  

 

As I read elsewhere:  Get stuck or stay stuck at home.  

[Treasure Hunter]

10 hours ago, pms4104 said:

Pfizer is already fully tested and approved for those as young as 12 ... really???

Yes Pfizer found their vaccine highly effective for 12-16 and has applied for emergency approval ( just like what we are currently under for adults) and expects to be giving the shots by fall. This was on CBS five days ago.Also they found that vaccinated adults protect the children that they are around. Win Win.!

[pms4104]

17 minutes ago, Treasure Hunter said:

Yes Pfizer found their vaccine highly effective for 12-16 and has applied for emergency approval ( just like what we are currently under for adults) and expects to be giving the shots by fall. This was on CBS five days ago.Also they found that vaccinated adults protect the children that they are around. Win Win.!

Pls reread your post to which I responded ...

 

Approved is not the same as planning to apply for EUA ...

 

And "now" is not the same as "in the fall"

[GonzoWCS]

10 minutes ago, pms4104 said:

Pls reread your post to which I responded ...

 

Approved is not the same as planning to apply for EUA ...

 

And "now" is not the same as "in the fall"

Well put

[USCcruisecrazy]

Back to the OP...the answer to your question/concerns is "Who knows!"  Unless or until the Cruise Lines present a process for if/when someone on board tests positive, it's all just conjecture on the part of all responders.  Yeah, we can give our "Educated" guesses (sort of an oxymoron), but only the cruise lines have the answer.

 

I'm not as concerned about what they will do as I am what their going in processes are.  For example, if they expect a mask at any point while on board, I'm staying home.  I've been vaccinated and most indications are that the vaccine will at a bare minimum keep me from dying from the disease.  I'm willing to take my chances of catching it, since evidence also shows that vaccinated people are unlikely to spread the disease or even show symptoms if they do have it. What is the sense of having all passengers and crew vaccinated and still wear a mask??  None!  So the real question is what are the processes that will be in place and when will Princess share those standards? 

[Pamster]

20 hours ago, Tak8 said:

Most lines seem to be requiring vaccinations to sail.  No one knows for sure, but it could also depend on how close contact someone had with an affected passenger.  Scientists are unsure how long protection lasts.  The last I read it was 6 months.

This morning I heard "at least 6 months, could be much longer".

[Pamster]

 

3 hours ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

Back to the OP...the answer to your question/concerns is "Who knows!"  Unless or until the Cruise Lines present a process for if/when someone on board tests positive, it's all just conjecture on the part of all responders.  Yeah, we can give our "Educated" guesses (sort of an oxymoron), but only the cruise lines have the answer.

 

I'm not as concerned about what they will do as I am what their going in processes are.  For example, if they expect a mask at any point while on board, I'm staying home.  I've been vaccinated and most indications are that the vaccine will at a bare minimum keep me from dying from the disease.  I'm willing to take my chances of catching it, since evidence also shows that vaccinated people are unlikely to spread the disease or even show symptoms if they do have it. What is the sense of having all passengers and crew vaccinated and still wear a mask??  None!  So the real question is what are the processes that will be in place and when will Princess share those standards? 

I would agree with you if the virus wasn't continuing to mutate.  And it's possible that the vaccine might be less effective against mutations.  We've already seen that our vaccines are less effective against the P2 variant.  If someone on a ship happens to be carrying a variant that the vaccines don't work against, not wearing masks could result in everyone getting it.

 

I think that not willing to wear a mask to cruise is the same as not willing to be vaccinated to cruise.  Your decision - if you don't want to do both of those, then you won't be able to cruise when they are both required.  Then when they are no longer required, you will be.  Who knows, by the time cruising starts, they might have a booster, and decide that masks aren't required.  Then all of our worry about masks in a fully vaccinated population will prove to be unnecessary.  🙂

 

Personally I'm of the everyone on the ship has to be vaccinated, and I'm willing to wear a mask and maintain social distancing if that's what is determined to be necessary.  Cause if I go I want to come home healthy, and I don't want to be dumped off at some port and put into quarantine, because of some new variant. 

 

 

 

  

[Pamster]

16 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Hardly.  Buy a lottery ticket.  More and more the info is highly unlikely.  We are never going to see 0.00% as someone can always find an exception case.

For the current variants in the US.  There are some in other countries that the vaccines are less to much less effective for.

[USCcruisecrazy]

9 minutes ago, Pamster said:

 

I would agree with you if the virus wasn't continuing to mutate.  And it's possible that the vaccine might be less effective against mutations.  We've already seen that our vaccines are less effective against the P2 variant.  If someone on a ship happens to be carrying a variant that the vaccines don't work against, not wearing masks could result in everyone getting it.

 

I think that not willing to wear a mask to cruise is the same as not willing to be vaccinated to cruise.  Your decision - if you don't want to do both of those, then you won't be able to cruise when they are both required.  Then when they are no longer required, you will be.  Who knows, by the time cruising starts, they might have a booster, and decide that masks aren't required.  Then all of our worry about masks in a fully vaccinated population will prove to be unnecessary.  🙂

 

Personally I'm of the everyone on the ship has to be vaccinated, and I'm willing to wear a mask and maintain social distancing if that's what is determined to be necessary.  Cause if I go I want to come home healthy, and I don't want to be dumped off at some port and put into quarantine, because of some new variant. 

 

 

 

  

That's fine...I appreciate your decision and taking a stand you are willing to live with.  I will do the same.  I see no joy in riding on a ship on vacation with a mask over my face.  We cancelled our 40th Anniversary at Walt Disney World for the same reason...that's in 5 weeks.  But we are good with that.

 

As far as the variants, I would assume they will be treated much like the flu variants.  You give a vaccination that meets the most likely strain and go with it.  I don't expect to see a vaccine that will ever stop the virus...or at least all potential variants.  The issue is, will it keep the virus from killing you.  Again, much like the flu.  You get the vaccine to help you not die from it.  Yet, 50,000 or so on average have died every year for decades from the flu.  That hasn't stopped us from living...just hopefully made us more aware of how to keep ourselves form being infected.

 

My wife worked triage for the first 6 months of this virus and now, thankfully, is just working with the Residency Program.  At no time did we let it control our lives.  We have traveled, flown on planes, stayed in hotels, eaten in restaurants in multiple states and have enjoyed life as best we can.  Hopefully that will include (one of these days) going on a ship.  Best of luck!  

[K.T.B.]

53 minutes ago, Pamster said:

This morning I heard "at least 6 months, could be much longer".

 

A lot of the assumptions (yes I know what what happens when you assume) that it could provide 2-3 years of protection, but they're merely guessing based on how it's reacting as compared to other vaccines.  I'd like to think that it's an educated guess, but we shall see.  I remain hopeful. 

[Pamster]

41 minutes ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

That's fine...I appreciate your decision and taking a stand you are willing to live with.  I will do the same.  I see no joy in riding on a ship on vacation with a mask over my face.  We cancelled our 40th Anniversary at Walt Disney World for the same reason...that's in 5 weeks.  But we are good with that.

 

As far as the variants, I would assume they will be treated much like the flu variants.  You give a vaccination that meets the most likely strain and go with it.  I don't expect to see a vaccine that will ever stop the virus...or at least all potential variants.  The issue is, will it keep the virus from killing you.  Again, much like the flu.  You get the vaccine to help you not die from it.  Yet, 50,000 or so on average have died every year for decades from the flu.  That hasn't stopped us from living...just hopefully made us more aware of how to keep ourselves form being infected.

 

My wife worked triage for the first 6 months of this virus and now, thankfully, is just working with the Residency Program.  At no time did we let it control our lives.  We have traveled, flown on planes, stayed in hotels, eaten in restaurants in multiple states and have enjoyed life as best we can.  Hopefully that will include (one of these days) going on a ship.  Best of luck!  

 

I suspect that you and your spouse and me and my hubby are in different age groups with different underlying conditions.  As such, our risk aversion is probably at different levels.  For all of us, it's going to boil down to what the cruise lines decide and whether we are willing to live by those rules.  

 

 

[AZjohn]

Reading this thread made me think of why it normally takes 8+ years to get a approved drug.

We could not take that long for clinical tests of a covid vaccine thus, we are all learning on the fly.

 

First focus (what we are seeing now) is something that would minimize hospital care and death. Decisions were made to save lives first (with the original strain) then focus on enhancements of coverage.

 

To OP's original question, No I would not cruise in the next 2 years without everyone else onboard vaccinated with whichever flavor of covid vaccine they can get in their country. Main reason is I do not want the ship to have any avoidable covid medical emergency.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by AZjohn