Carnival’s CEO states that they will not require vaccinations

[jfunk138]

9 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I believe the point was that your analysis was "nonsense".  Whatever deaths that occurred prior to the availability of a vaccine are unfortunate, but have no relevance to the efficiency of the vaccine once distributed.

 

Your point about the Seychelles is interesting.  It contrasts quite strongly with Israel, for example, which has similar vaccination figures (total %, rate of vaccination, etc).  And according to the data available, they had practically no case load prior to Jan 2021 (and zero deaths).  Their death rate seems to have dropped off recently, but it is a very noisy and stair-steppy graph.  Which tells me the data is not reliable.  They have a population of about 100,000, and maybe they have a very porous immigration system, which is allowing visitors to drive up their local case load in spite of the vaccination rate.  Or maybe the vaccine they are using is not an effective one?  They started using Sinopharm, it seems, but have also started using Astra-Zeneca.

Thanks for your thoughtful commentary as always!  

I think the noisy graph is more a result of their small population.  Single digit death counts actually make a big difference there.  None of the aggregators have options for 14-day averages, but that does help to make the line smoother if you want to do some Excel analysis on your own.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lmowery/2021/03/10/seychelles-opens-up-to-the-world-no-vaccine-necessary/?sh=2028100f6831

This article suggests they deployed 100,000 AZ and 50,000 Sino.    With much of the world reliant on those 2 vaccines, it's not particularly good news for Covid worldwide.   It also says their immigration requires vaccination for admission, so I don't think you can claim porous immigration to this remote island nation for the surge that has occurred after high vaccination:

"the country “has done an outstanding job controlling the COVID-19 outbreak within its borders and putting in place safety measures to allow visitors to return safely.”"

[coloradocruiselover88]

I guess with the CDC’s requirement that 98% of guest and 95% of crew be vaccinated he will rethink his position or start sailing somewhere outside of the US ports..

Edited April 30, 2021 by coloradocruiselover88

[d12j28]

2 minutes ago, coloradocruiselover88 said:

I guess with the CDC’s requirement that 98% of guest and 95% of crew be vaccinated he will rethink his position or start sailing somewhere outside of the US ports..

Other way around. %95 of guests.

[abby1257]

On 4/14/2021 at 2:48 PM, LHARTWICK said:

Agreed!  I am just stunned that vaccinations will not be required after all the industry has been through.  The industry wouldn't survive another shutdown.  Why would they risk other outbreaks, regardless of how large or small?  I'm vaccinated, so I'm not worried about catching it either.  Once opened again, we may stick to lines that require vaccinations for a while.  

Same here....I'm not cruising with people not vaccinated...what....so they can quarantine people to their cabins....while they get these people off the ship...NOPE

 

 

[IntrepidFromDC]

26 minutes ago, abby1257 said:

Same here....I'm not cruising with people not vaccinated...what....so they can quarantine people to their cabins....while they get these people off the ship...NOPE

 

 

I'll cruise with unvaccinated, but I'm not wearing a mask.  Daughter and I got vaccinated in early April and can't wait to cruise!

[Joe817]

52 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

I'll cruise with unvaccinated, but I'm not wearing a mask.  Daughter and I got vaccinated in early April and can't wait to cruise!

Same here Intrepid. Wife & I fully vaccinated back in January & February with the Moderna vaccine. IMO,  I/we could get covid, but it won't be life threatening. So I'm ok with that. After all, what is life without a little risk? That is the philosophy of "ZORBA THE GREEK". I saw that when still in high school, and it had a profound influence on my life from then on.....back in 1964. It's a very deep, philosophical study in symbolism and human nature. 

[CI66774]

1 hour ago, abby1257 said:

Same here....I'm not cruising with people not vaccinated...what....so they can quarantine people to their cabins....while they get these people off the ship...NOPE

 

 

Then I assume you’re going to remain on the ship when it’s in port? Life is not without risk and the moment you step off that boat and mingle with those unvaccinated locals, there’s a risk he/she can cough, etc. and you inhale it and take it back on the ship with you.  I get that you don’t have to spend seven days in close quarters with the locals but all it takes is a few seconds. If you really don’t want to be around unvaccinated people, that’s fine but then you can’t get off the ship nor should anyone else.

[CI66774]

23 minutes ago, Joe817 said:

Same here Intrepid. Wife & I fully vaccinated back in January & February with the Moderna vaccine. IMO,  I/we could get covid, but it won't be life threatening. So I'm ok with that. After all, what is life without a little risk? That is the philosophy of "ZORBA THE GREEK". I saw that when still in high school, and it had a profound influence on my life from then on.....back in 1964. It's a very deep, philosophical study in symbolism and human nature. 

My thoughts exactly!

[cruisingguy007]

38 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

Then I assume you’re going to remain on the ship when it’s in port? Life is not without risk and the moment you step off that boat and mingle with those unvaccinated locals, there’s a risk he/she can cough, etc. and you inhale it and take it back on the ship with you.  I get that you don’t have to spend seven days in close quarters with the locals but all it takes is a few seconds. If you really don’t want to be around unvaccinated people, that’s fine but then you can’t get off the ship nor should anyone else.

 

I just love how people make up their own rules and absolutes in such a matter of fact way. It's brilliant! 🤣

Edited May 2, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[cruisingguy007]

2 hours ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

I'll cruise with unvaccinated, but I'm not wearing a mask.  Daughter and I got vaccinated in early April and can't wait to cruise!

 

Hear! Hear! 

[cruisingguy007]

2 hours ago, abby1257 said:

Same here....I'm not cruising with people not vaccinated...what....so they can quarantine people to their cabins....while they get these people off the ship...NOPE

 

 

 

Then you aint cruising. The simple fact is that no ship will be 100% vaccinated and any line that tells you that they guarantee (which they never would for legal reasons) you that all passengers are vaccinated is full of beans. All lines will be about the same because they will all be using the same nonexistent verification system ie verbal/written declaration and/or cereal box vaccine card or print out from Dr's office etc. Not very difficult to subvert. The good news is that most folks have been vaccinated and want the protection it provides. It's a great insurance policy to protect yourself. 

[abby1257]

8 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I just love how people make up their own rules and absolutes in such a matter of fact way. It's brilliant! 🤣

LOLOL  Really no different than the people that 'WONT' get vaccinated...just saying

[harkinmr]

On 4/30/2021 at 12:17 AM, cruisingguy007 said:

There will be some covid cases, CDC and the lines aren't living in fantasy land. The point is to mitigate, not eliminate "outbreaks" (really cases IMO). There have only been around 240 cases in all the cruises that have taken place world wide since covid. Only one death. This was/is before vaccines became much more widely available. I don't think anyone wants to get sick but the simple fact is there is no 100% risk free cruise. Those that expect a 100% risk free cruise should stay home. 

 

Where did you get your cruise ship infection information from?  It is totally inaccurate.  

 

For 1 year (March 15/2020-2021), on cruise ships, Coronavirus had affected 3519 people (passengers plus crew, only officially confirmed cases) of whom 73 passengers died. The first epidemic outbreak occurred on Diamond Princess (February, 712 infected, including 14 deaths). The second outbreak was on Grand Princess (February-March, infected 132 with 7 deaths). The third/largest outbreak was on Ruby Princess (March, 852 infected with 22 deaths). Followed a long month of altered or canceled cruises, ship quarantines/lockdowns, port closures (bans on incoming vessels) - mainly in Southeast Asia, Europe, the Caribbean.

 

https://www.cruisemapper.com/coronavirus

 

 

[harkinmr]

On 4/30/2021 at 9:25 AM, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Here in Brevard county (FL) - including Port Canaveral - as of a couple days ago 26% of the population has received full dosing, and 39% have received at least 1 dose. We are a solid red county in a fairly red state (there is some correlation I'd suspect).

 

They now have more vaccine locally than demand, and demand is dropping off rather quickly.

Brevard County resident here.  Not at all surprised to hear that Florida is behind the curve on vaccinations.  I think that herd immunity will be measured on a state by state basis going forward.  We may never achieve it here.  In states like ours where vaccine hesitancy reigns there will be more infections, hospitalizations and deaths because of general spread and variants.  Many other states will achieve herd immunity in short order.   I wouldn't be surprised if at some point there are travel bans imposed on some states by other states just as at the beginning of all of this.  I can just hear the hue and cry.  But we will have no one to blame but ourselves...

[Aplmac]

An interesting little collection of Vaccination graphics...

 

[cruisingguy007]

2 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Where did you get your cruise ship infection information from?  It is totally inaccurate.  

 

For 1 year (March 15/2020-2021), on cruise ships, Coronavirus had affected 3519 people (passengers plus crew, only officially confirmed cases) of whom 73 passengers died. The first epidemic outbreak occurred on Diamond Princess (February, 712 infected, including 14 deaths). The second outbreak was on Grand Princess (February-March, infected 132 with 7 deaths). The third/largest outbreak was on Ruby Princess (March, 852 infected with 22 deaths). Followed a long month of altered or canceled cruises, ship quarantines/lockdowns, port closures (bans on incoming vessels) - mainly in Southeast Asia, Europe, the Caribbean.

 

https://www.cruisemapper.com/coronavirus

 

 

 Those numbers are since the resumption of worldwide cruising. The official count is 57 or so but I used the numbers from the cruise hater site cruise law just to be safe. Even at the higher number, odds are still fantastic. That was mainly my point. 

[OceanZena]

1 minute ago, Aplmac said:

An interesting little collection of Vaccination graphics...

 

Still won't convince me. But nice try. 🙂 

[Aplmac]

How many of these vaccines

have we all had already, but can't even remember when??

 

I remember gladly accepting my Polio vaccine at age six - 1956

it was an oral thing, on a sugar cube (huge deal for a six year old!)
All others? Mehhhh

 

 

They left out Smallpox!

[moondog73]

This thread is just Great!!!  By the same logic people will not get the vax, then you should never take advil since it is bad for you liver, dont eat fried foods since it is bad for you heart and pancreas, redmeat bad for heart, eggs bad for chloestoral, alcohol bad for liver, and most drugs have a super lsmall percentage of death.  Also you can NEVER have any surgery since there is a smaal percentage of death too. 

 

Yes it is true some people got blood clots that took certain vaccines.  But saying the vaccine caused it though would be like me saying it prevented blood clots in 99% of the people who took it.  It is just all nonsense. No one can say with 100% certainty.

 

I wish all health care companies would rally together and just say if you dont get a vax, pay for any potential covid related costs yourself.  My company said we do not have to get a vax.  However, if we get covid with a vax they would pay us while off.  Without a vax, it is on your dime.  Not one person has complained about it. 

 

If/when cruising starts back up, I hope they require vaccinations.  For every person with out one, there will be 4 lined up and waiting to go.  It is your right to get one or not, but you can't complain if a compay requires you to hav one to sail.  Why should I potentially surfer a cancelled cruise/quarantine becuase peopel won't comply?  If the risks were so high, the governments of the world would not all be on board with it.  Heck, the drug compaines would not put themselves out there for all the sue happy clowns in the USA either.

[ColeThornton]

Give it a rest, folks.   Have some respect for other people in the community who don't want to click on new content just to see childish comments.

 

If you have a beef with someone either report them to the moderators or put them on ignore, which is very easy to accomplish.

[Joe817]

Just now, ColeThornton said:

Give it a rest, folks.   Have some respect for other people in the community who don't want to click on new content just to see childish comments.

 

If you have a beef with someone either report them to the moderators or put them on ignore, which is very easy to accomplish.

^^^^^^^  This! I agree with you Cole, 100%. Time to end this never ending argument.

[firefly333]

5 minutes ago, OceanZena said:

So in other words, i'm not supposed to reply to posts that are specifically quoted and directed towards me? Your assessment of me is way off base as I do not come here to post my view "over and over" "ad nauseam", but i'm merely replying to posts that are directly speaking to me and I certainly have the right to respond back. To try and shut me down and not allow me the chance to respond to others is outright bullying as someone else observed. 

 

But you are right, it takes two to tango and your post above is doing exactly what you're complaining about. The hypocrisy is off the charts with some of you people and you don't even realize it. 

I get it that you wouldnt get the vaccine and respect that. 

 

Just dont get it. Why argue about it? I'm good with you not getting it. I just dont like the arguing.

 

Everyone is free to do as they want about their decision. It's up to you and everyone else. I'm just hoping once carnival puts out a position the arguing is done.

 

Tbh I dont even care why or why not. Once carnival decides then everyone can move on and comply or not. I get it you are not getting it ok? What I dont get is telling us10 times a day. You made your pt. I hear ya.

[OceanZena]

Just now, firefly333 said:

I get it that you wouldnt get the vaccine and respect that. 

 

Just dont get it. Why argue about it? I'm good with you not getting it. I just dont like the arguing.

 

Everyone is free to do as they want about their decision. It's up to you and everyone else. I'm just hoping once carnival puts out a position the arguing is done.

 

Tbh I dont even care why or why not. Once carnival decides then everyone can move on and comply or not. I get it you are not getting it ok? What I dont get is telling us10 times a day. You made your pt. I hear ya.

You're 100% right. Why argue about it? And thank you for respecting my decision. I appreciate that. You are also right that this whole conversation died down yesterday until people decided to come back to specifically target me in their posts and I have the right to reply back in response if I wish. 

 

If everyone really wants this conversation to die down, then they should just stop coming into this thread and resurrecting it. I don't do that but merely reply to those who are directly quoting me and/or asking questions to me and as I stated, I have the right to give a response when directed towards me, and to try and shut me down and tell me i'm not allowed to do that is bullying. 

 

I understand your point that you don't want to discuss this topic any further, so I politely suggest you just refrain from entering this thread. I'm not saying that rudely, but constructively, because if someone here has a question or a post directed towards me, I have no issue with replying back. If others do, then just don't enter the thread. There's a plethora of other topics here to discuss in other threads. 

[TNcruising02]

11 minutes ago, bitemyfly said:

It’s certainly been a nicer place the last several days ! And while the ignor feature work very well some time I don’t sign in and see the political nonsense .. if I wanted that I would turn on the tv lol .

the best is this nightmare is closing down and cruising will be in the future, with plenty of choices for all !

I have quite a block list so far that just started a year ago. That helps a lot.  I just wish people would leave the insults and political jabs out of CC. No matter which side someone is on, when they make political posts to get their jabs in, they are insulting half of the people here.  It's really too bad people can't be more respectful and leave politics off of it.  This place is mostly a good break from politics.

I am very excited about the cruise ships getting back to US ports and the crews being vaccinated.  That's one step closer to sailing.  My next cruise is in August and I just booked my airline tickets today with high hopes.  I booked with SW, so at least if this one doesn't sail I can change my flights for free.  But I will probably just keep the airline tickets and vacation in Florida again.

[Moviela]

Getting back to the title of the thread, the latest gestations from the CDC recognizes the effect of the vaccine on the spread of the disease, and the elimination of the need for hospitalization for the poor souls that contract it after vaccination. To that end they are saying the need for simulated cruises is moot and the no sail order modified if 98% of crew and 95% of passengers are vaccinated. This might be the time for those adults that wish to cruise in July or August to roll up their sleeves. If you are the extreme few who have a medically articulatable reason to not take the vaccine, and supported by the peer reviewed literature (the science) I would respectfully request you wait until herd immunity is declared. The rest of you who have decided the emergency declaration of approval gives you leave to avoid the vaccine should receive respect for your decision, it is your right. You should also be aware that many activities of normal life will be closed to you and you have no reasonable expectation of a right to force participation. This is because you have no right to slough virus onto others. You will be joining the other nudnik's who can't wear a mask, wash their hands, ignore quarantines, and throw a tantrum when demanding a right that does not exist for them. 

 

I believe Carnival and the other lines represented by CLIA will need to make the decision soon as to whether they will require vaccinations, and cruise sooner, or to not require it and starting ringing the register later.  If I had a Board of Directors and shareholders to answer to, I would cruise sooner. 

 

The Governor and Legislature in Florida have now have passed a bill to prohibit vaccine passports or mandatory vaccinations. Good for them, however, they may not receive leave to sail from Florida ports without simulated cruises, and the other laundry list of restrictions from the CDC. This may be the reason Carnival is polishing the posts and rails in Galveston to start cruising there. Texas has even lined up vaccine for arriving crew in that port. It looks like the orchestra is fixin' to play at the Dome in Long Beach too. Both Panorama and Miracle have been tied to the dolphins (on different days) in Long Beach for the past many weeks.

 

CDC has said Mid-July  could be the start. I hope they can start earlier so Fourth of July cruises can sail, to be in agreement with policies of their boss, the President.