All inclusive. Not really. Expensive, YES!

[HMR74]

41 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

It's called an " Infomercial "----

A one hour " Promotion " of the Company showing empathy from the CEO for 3 employees enduring hardship --They all get rewarded ,  hug  Mr/ Ms " Big " etc.etc.  Same theme on every show. 

 

 

 

are you saying its propaganda via the business network? (sarc)

 

There was a saying some 40 years ago MBWA- Management By Walking Around. The CEO needs to get the heck out of his or her office and actually see whats happening. It was not meant for show. It was meant for productivity improvement by cutting down errors, and wasteful activities, not cracking a whip to get people to work harder and faster.

 

Current relevant examples:

1) CDC suddenly will be able to turn around results on a trial cruise in 5 days vs 60. The paperwork was just gathering dust at some desk. Now there will be more accountability-perhaps.

2) The warp speed vaccine (more complex). eliminate the same  hurry up and wait aspects-not the trials and testing aspect.

3) Boeings 737max--what happened is that the FAA application was made with a 5 year window before the expensive process of having to resubmit. So Boeing and FAA over the last several months left till the application expired, rushed the FAA tests through, leaving out some pretty vital steps. Which could have and should have identified the problem. Yeah, Boeing should have redesigned the fuselage , but that took too much time and money too. And  the FAA was part of the hurry up and wait problem by not saying there is not enough time left to do complete tests.

[LGW59]

10 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

Late to this party, but it hits close to home. I drink and love drink packages, but my wife has an a-fib condition triggered by alcohol and caffeine, even decaf (among other things). She discovered a rooibos tea on Reflection that was available in the PBP, but we later found a non-premium one on RC that was available like regular tea.

 

Having read through the entire thread, I am surprised no one has commented on the prior policy with drink packages that required every adult in a cabin to get the package EXCEPT you could call for an exception for medical reasons (and I think get a soda package instead).

 

As I recall, virtually everyone thought it was very fair to allow the exception for medical reasons. Most people understood the "everyone gets it" policy as stemming from excessive sharing when packages started.

 

I am disappointed to see so few people having understanding of people who want to be on Celebrity but are unhappy at having to pay for drinks that they cannot have. Yes, they can go elsewhere, but that is pretty drastic. No one blithely dismissed concerns like this in the prior price--you all routinely offered help to anyone asking about it.

 

As to "this has been discussed many times" that fact does not mean the OP should have waded through the entire Celebrity forum to find such threads. There are also dozens of threads, if not more, about cancellations, FCCs, refunds, the CDC, Celeb Air, ship sightings, buffets, and virtually all newly offered threads raising someone's concerns. Not everyone takes the time to read all new posts, and I think people should just leave a thread alone if they don't want to rehash something rather than rebuking someone for bringing things up.

 

There seems to be a lot of unhappiness motivating more snarkiness than I recall seiing before in threads that are not about the usual fire pits like tips and dress codes.

 

So far, 260+ posts in, not one person has suggested a good reason for eliminating exceptions.

Usually a solo cruiser here, and like the OP, I wish we could select the perks we want included, we are already paying the room rate for two passengers.  Under the current Celebrity policies we cannot do that, is it unfortunate, sure it is, but then I need to make my decision of whether it will prevent me from booking, thus far it has not, love Celebrity so I just go with it.  Way back on the first page, hcat, expressed understanding and a suggestion for the OP, curious to know if that might work? 

[Denny01]

Its’ always interesting to see other Line’s costs and options posted and everyone can (and should?) price check others, but comparing Virgin to X, and Disney to X? Viking does 4-5N cruises and the cost is pretty much compatible to the standard X 7N Caribbeans. And Disney? That is a specialized Cruise Line and the costs are not that close and their approach/product is Very different from X. Personally, I wouldn’t go on a Cruise Line that actually advertises it has Talking Rats on board! I know, that thing is a ‘mouse’, but its still vermin!! And I’ll throw in MSC. Not interested in a Line that someone says they like but they have to upgrade a good deal to not be on the rest of the ship.  

 

I know, lots of cheap shots!

 

OK, enough. Compare away.  I have a feeling that there won’t be a throng of ‘Xers’ piling over to those Lines. I’d concentrate on Lines that are more similar with X, such as Princess and the smaller RCL’s. But I’ll stick with X for now and spend my time going bar-to-bar, sucking those things down 2-handed because they’re ‘free’, and (kind of) sober up spending the rest of the time mistyping into the internet! And think of the time I’ll save not standing in line trying to get my gratuities removed! 

 

Den

[mayleeman]

9 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

the good reason for AI and increased prices is increased revenue for the company

 

Thus proving some nondrinking posters' point that they are providing increased revenue for profits by paying for something they do not consume. The marginal increase needed to make up the loss of those funds, assuming a set profit point, would have to be paid by people actually consuming that something.

 

In Econ 101, that was called subsidizing.

[wrk2cruise]

No they are not subsidizing other passengers they are just paying for goods and services they don't use or don't require.   I don't require a bev package or wifi as I get these as loyalty benefits but I have to pay for them now (don't require).   Has nothing to do with other passengers.

 

I guess you can say the cruise line was subsidizing me before due to my loyalty, but no more.

 

Edit:  I did re-read your post and understand your point but lets take perks out the picture.  It's really X guaranteeing themselves a certain revenue above the stateroom cost as profit.   It's pretty much like the $799 documentation fee when you buy a car, pure profit and non negotiable.

Edited May 5, 2021 by wrk2cruise

[Ride-The-Waves]

5 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

No they are not subsidizing other passengers they are just paying for goods and services they don't use or don't require.   I don't require a bev package or wifi as I get these as loyalty benefits but I have to pay for them now (don't require).   Has nothing to do with other passengers.

Of course it does.  Alcohol is much cheaper when purchased in bulk.

 

But you have convinced me...  We rarely imbibe so  now I need to order my 15 drinks and poutr them down the drain in front of the bartender...

[Denny01]

9 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Of course it does.  Alcohol is much cheaper when purchased in bulk.

 

But you have convinced me...  We rarely imbibe so  now I need to order my 15 drinks and poutr them down the drain in front of the bartender...

Under the old Navy articles, “Rocks and Shoals”, you would be flogged, And justly So!!! A crime against Humanity…..well, against me! 

 

Den

Edited May 5, 2021 by Denny01

[Pinboy]

10 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

are you saying its propaganda via the business network? (sarc)

 

There was a saying some 40 years ago MBWA- Management By Walking Around. The CEO needs to get the heck out of his or her office and actually see whats happening. It was not meant for show. It was meant for productivity improvement by cutting down errors, and wasteful activities, not cracking a whip to get people to work harder and faster.

Not propaganda--- A TV Show to entertain and " Sell "  What a nice guy/gal  ( Company ) we work for ".

It's part of the Company's Advertising budget .

How much time do you think Mr/Ms " Big " spends in the trenches making the show ?

How do they select the employees to be rewarded ?

 " MBWA- Management By Walking Around "--- Of course-- excellent, and companies have been doing this forever.  I believe they are referred to as Mystery Shoppers or Inspectors today ? 

I'll bet the results are not the same as a tv show .

 

[PTC DAWG]

24 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

No they are not subsidizing other passengers they are just paying for goods and services they don't use or don't require.   I don't require a bev package or wifi as I get these as loyalty benefits but I have to pay for them now (don't require).   Has nothing to do with other passengers.

 

Which loyalty benefit entitles one to drinks at any bar whenever the bar is open?  Bloodies with breakfast? Bailey's in the morning coffee?  Drinks anytime at the Coffee Bar?  Not to mention, bottled water, canned sodas, etc...

 

I'll admit, I'm no expert on the loyalty tiers and their benefits,  but I have not seen where this if offered at any level.  

Edited May 5, 2021 by PTC DAWG

[PTC DAWG]

16 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Of course it does.  Alcohol is much cheaper when purchased in bulk.

 

But you have convinced me...  We rarely imbibe so  now I need to order my 15 drinks and poutr them down the drain in front of the bartender...

Do you only drink the free ice water offered?  Maybe the tea/coffee and lemonade offered in the buffet/MDR?  

 

IF you do, you have more control than me on vacation.  🙂

[HMR74]

8 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

Not propaganda--- A TV Show to entertain and " Sell "  What a nice guy/gal  ( Company ) we work for ".

It's part of the Company's Advertising budget .

How much time do you think Mr/Ms " Big " spends in the trenches making the show ?

How do they select the employees to be rewarded ?

 " MBWA- Management By Walking Around "--- Of course-- excellent, and companies have been doing this forever.  I believe they are referred to as Mystery Shoppers or Inspectors today ? 

I'll bet the results are not the same as a tv show .

 

I was just being sarcatic with the propaganda comment.

But my question for the undercover bosses, and the show, is do they create more problems by giving big gifts out to just some employees when others think they are entitled to that too?

 

 

 

[davekathy]

19 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Which loyalty benefit entitles one to drinks at any bar whenever the bar is open?  Bloodies with breakfast? Bailey's in the morning coffee?  Drinks anytime at the Coffee Bar?  Not to mention, bottled water, canned sodas, etc...

 

I'll admit, I'm no expert on the loyalty tiers and their benefits,  but I have not seen where this if offered at any level.  

Agree. Elite and above can get mimosas, bloody marys and bellinis in the Tuscan Grille only in the morning while it's open.  I believe (??) zenith have an open bar in Michaels/Retreat all day. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by davekathy

[wrk2cruise]

19 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Which loyalty benefit entitles one to drinks at any bar whenever the bar is open?  Bloodies with breakfast? Bailey's in the morning coffee?  Drinks anytime at the Coffee Bar?  Not to mention, bottled water, canned sodas, etc...

 

I'll admit, I'm no expert on the loyalty tiers and their benefits,  but I have not seen where this if offered at any level.  

Zenith level get premium beverage package and stream wifi.

[HMR74]

56 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

 Alcohol is much cheaper when purchased in bulk.

 

The wine I drink is the $9 a glass variety on board.. I can and do  buy a case of it at home for $5 a bottle (Cruise lines probably get it for 4 or less, also considering the wine company gets advertising exposure. Its the same price at local restaurants per glass, but if you buy a bottle at a restaurant its $34. Celebrity cannot be too much different.

 

I did learn from our kids when they were in college.

 

They called it pre drink--before going out to a restaurant or bar, they had a couple of drinks in the Sorority house with a much lower cost, then milk a drink for an hour or more when out with a bar crawl.

and many times we will skip a glass at a restaurant as we know it runs the bill up between tax and gratuities which runs 30% where I am at.

 

Is that pre drink basically happy hour for elites?

 

But on board, I grin and bear it--I want to thoroughly enjoy the vacation, not rush the meals on board and relax and have drinks before and during dinner and a specialty coffee afterwards. If I cruised more frequently, I might tone it down a bit. Might being the operative word.

 

On the subsidy aspect. the cruise lines have target P&L metrics. They will get the money one way or another. Or be out of business. How many times have Celebrity's packages changed over the last 3 years?  My wife and I, wife moreso than I, thought we did not need the drink packages. Then we sat down and calculated it and it came out close enough that we did not want the hassle of considering each drink and then have to deal with a multi page bill at the end.

 

But everybody is different. Those that do not overdo it  at buffet are subsidizing those that do. Same for dining rooms when some folks order extra everything.

 

When I price and compare itineraries, especially with different lines, you need to equalize the itineraries for level of cabin , food or drink OBC refundable or not, and drinks and spa access, etc. to find out where you will be in the end. I'll sometimes "cheat" when I report the costs to my wife to get what I think will be more enjoyment for the buck.  This all includes shore excursions and how to approach those which can also get out of hand.

 

Its not just dollars, which is the first metric, its the intangibles also.

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by HMR74

[Orator]

18 minutes ago, davekathy said:

Agree. Elite and above can get mimosas, bloody marys and bellinis in the Tuscan Grille only in the morning while it's open.  I believe (??) zenith have an open bar in Michaels/Retreat all day. 

Zeniths no longer have access to MC/Retreat.

[mayleeman]

8 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

I'll sometimes "cheat" when I report the costs to my wife....

 

 

 

 

I suspect a lot of cruises end up costing more than what we tell our spouses when we suggest a booking!

[CroozFanatic]

The AI is an experiment. I think they got it wrong with the drinks and I think they'll modify it at some point.

 

Also, they read these boards, in case that wasn't known to everyone.

 

 

 

 

[HskrCrsr]

30 minutes ago, Orator said:

Zeniths no longer have access to MC/Retreat.

 

Giving Celebrity the benefit of the doubt, they do suggest this is not permanent: "To adhere to elevated safety standards, Zenith access to the lounge at The Retreat® and Michael’s Club will be limited to members staying in The Retreat until further notice." All subject to change, of course.

[Orator]

3 minutes ago, HskrCrsr said:

 

Giving Celebrity the benefit of the doubt, they do suggest this is not permanent: "To adhere to elevated safety standards, Zenith access to the lounge at The Retreat® and Michael’s Club will be limited to members staying in The Retreat until further notice." All subject to change, of course.

You might be correct, but I'll believe it when I see it!

[LGW59]

18 minutes ago, CroozFanatic said:

The AI is an experiment. I think they got it wrong with the drinks and I think they'll modify it at some point.

 

Also, they read these boards, in case that wasn't known to everyone.

 

 

 

 

I think as many if not more are ok with AI, of course I have not gone back thru threads definitively confirm but others can do that.

[tfred]

3 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I think as many if not more are ok with AI, of course I have not gone back thru threads definitively confirm but others can do that.

Cruise Critic member are a very skewed sample to pull from.  Generally knowledgeable of cruising (with historical opinions of yesteryear ) and highly opinionated. That isn't X market moving forward.  They want the land resort crowd to start cruising who has no idea of what a cruise is except the hackneyed "newly wed and nearly dead" line.  X has to change that perception with new thinking and offers 

[PTC DAWG]

1 hour ago, wrk2cruise said:

Zenith level get premium beverage package and stream wifi.

Ah ha...you got me on the Zeniths....I could see some of them not liking the AI program.  ASSuming it is causing much higher prices.  

 

What percentage of Captain Club members are Zeniths?  

 

I agree with a post above, I think Celebrity is looking for new customers with the AI program...I would think the Zenith crowd is in the older demographic.  

[davekathy]

1 hour ago, Orator said:

Zeniths no longer have access to MC/Retreat.

Thanks for the memory jogger. I remember reading that being a change post covid when cruising resumes. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by davekathy

[Bo1953]

2 hours ago, mayleeman said:

 

Thus proving some nondrinking posters' point that they are providing increased revenue for profits by paying for something they do not consume. The marginal increase needed to make up the loss of those funds, assuming a set profit point, would have to be paid by people actually consuming that something.

 

In Econ 101, that was called subsidizing.

In Econ 102, that is called profit to the cruise line and not subsidizing passengers who drink alcohol in any quantity, if any alcohol at all.

 

Quite similar, IMO, to those who are not vegan as myself, shall I be upset because my meals would 'potentially' cost less on a per serving basis than those who do?

 

I think not.

 

Yet, the glue that binds us all, surrounds price. Way back when the price of beverage packages went up, the roar went out... now it is AI.

 

Again, I trust all who are bothered or miffed by this change will log this with X directly and look forward to changes, possibly, based on the input.

 

Cheers and bon voyage

[4774Papa]

17 hours ago, LGW59 said:

NCL may be all inclusive, though does not matter to me, I don't sail on her.  But when you say all inclusive "as well", are you referring to Celebrity?  If so, not a fair comparison, Celerity is always included, NOT all inclusive, big difference.

Not really a BIG difference, since much of what you spend extra on a cruise is included in the perks.  Also, overall prices are jacked up.   Making much of our elite benefits superflous.