Zenith back in the Retreat

[graphicguy]

1 minute ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I know what you mean, however doesn't MSC status match to non-cruise travel brands, such as hotel and airlines?  Some credit cards give you status such as the AMEX Hilton Aspire.

True about MSC.  That still won't get you into the Yacht Club if you haven't booked it.

 

AMEX is the same.   I have a Platinum AMEX.  I get some value with that, namely access to Delta's Sky Club, OBC on the cruise lines I sail, basic travel insurance, some Hotel Amenities.

 

But, I also pay $650/year for it.  No matter how much I use my AMEX, nor how much I charge on it, I still have to pay the annual fee.  To me, it's worth it.  To others?  Probably not so much.

 

If a cruise line offers me a few drinks, or maybe a specialty dinner, a get-together for guests who have sailed with them previously, have at it.  I thank them for the freebies. I appreciate the gesture. Am I owed it?  Absolutely not.  Nor, do I expect it.

 

This so called "uproar" and "fiasco" is neither.  The reply is simple.  If you want access to any cruise lines' private suite areas, book a suite.

 

 

 

 

[NutsAboutGolf]

21 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I also pay $650/year for it.  No matter how much I use my AMEX, nor how much I charge on it, I still have to pay the annual fee.

 

I tried to cancel mine and was offered a $550 statement credit or 55000 points to keep it.  I later learned that travel blogs were reporting on this and went viral and AMEX reduced their retention offer.  Not sure if I'll keep it after this year

[NutsAboutGolf]

33 minutes ago, tfred said:

They do match against some hotels, but it is also (or at least was) a "challenge" as well - you had to actually cruise within a certain timeframe or lose the temporary status

 

I've never sailed MSC so I didn't know that.  I do know however MSC doesn't subscribe to lifetime status, like hotels/airlines, you can lose your status.  For example, if you cruise 20 times with MSC in 2022, you get that status for 2023 but if you don't cruise in 2023 you won't maintain that status for 2024.

[hcat]

A number of years ago, in a huge marketing change,  Celeb and Royal took away exclusive Frequent Cruiser ( Elite/ Diamond) lounges and areas on some ships,  so they could start pushing the suites at the higher price points with expanded and exclusive amenities.  It was an affront at the time but they eventually found some other ways to make up for it and tried to keep everyone happy and coming back! 

 

Maybe now, they could carve out a small exclusive area for loyal Zenith guests to enjoy in  recognition of their loyalty. ( no suite guests allowed unless they are Zenith). Just need a small bar, plush  seating and a few upscale snacks.  Anyone can be a suite guest but not everyone will achieve ZENITH...!  We once had hopes but  believe we will remain E+ forever!

 

We are booked to cruise in a suite for the first time, but still value our loyalty status!

[graphicguy]

39 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I tried to cancel mine and was offered a $550 statement credit or 55000 points to keep it.  I later learned that travel blogs were reporting on this and went viral and AMEX reduced their retention offer.  Not sure if I'll keep it after this year

I'm in the same boat since I retired.  Don't know that I'll use it as much.

 

That said, over the last 12 months, I've received $900 in OBC credit for the 3 cruises I've taken, plus $200 in a hotel credit that I'll use next month, plus using the airport lounge access.

 

Might downgrade it to a Delta Gold Amex later this year, though.

[C-Dragons]

5 minutes ago, hcat said:

A number of years ago, in a huge marketing change,  Celeb and Royal took away exclusive Frequent Cruiser ( Elite/ Diamond) lounges and areas on some ships,  so they could start pushing the suites at the higher price points with expanded and exclusive amenities.  It was an affront at the time but they eventually found some other ways to make up for it and tried to keep everyone happy and coming back! 

 

Maybe now, they could carve out a small exclusive area for loyal Zenith guests to enjoy in  recognition of their loyalty. ( no suite guests allowed unless they are Zenith). Just need a small bar, plush  seating and a few upscale snacks.  Anyone can be a suite guest but not everyone will achieve ZENITH...!  We once had hopes but  believe we will remain E+ forever!

 

We are booked to cruise in a suite for the first time, but still value our loyalty status!

IMO, this is what X should do.

 

 

[graphicguy]

Just did a quick check, looks to me like Zenith members are recognized.  Just some (not all) of what they get...

 

-Free laundry/dry cleaning

-Free internet

-discounts on a whole host of things like pictures

-charitable donation on the Guest's behalf

 

There's a whole litany of other things, too.

 

So, what Zenith's are saying is that those perks aren't enough.  They also want access to the things that those of us who paid for Suites have, but they don't want to pay for a suite?

 

The suite guests would have a legitimate beef about allowing non-suite passengers into their exclusive areas.

[NutsAboutGolf]

17 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I'm in the same boat since I retired.  Don't know that I'll use it as much.

 

That said, over the last 12 months, I've received $900 in OBC credit for the 3 cruises I've taken, plus $200 in a hotel credit that I'll use next month, plus using the airport lounge access.

 

Might downgrade it to a Delta Gold Amex later this year, though.

 

I was told you can only downgrade to regular Gold (non-Delta) or Green.  Cannot downgrade to co-branded (Delta, Hilton, etc) cards.  If you haven't heard, now AMEX plat allows you to use the digital credit for Hulu which works out for me, yet not sure if that's enough.  They'll most likely have some tweaks between now and a year

[fstuff1]

2 hours ago, tfred said:

X's first priority is the full fare paying suite guest experience - that's where a lot of profit lies.  If X sees that Zenith pax are too much for the Retreat (crowded, eating all the food, sitting in all the chairs) then they will be excluded

 

Every other lounge experience that I have had (Marriott, Amex, Delta) has done this as their programs evolved.  Top tier population numbers increased and started to overwhelm the lounge and services.  Amex is really getting overwhelmed at airports with card members and guests.  They now dont allow inbound travelers, only outbound.  No one enters more than 3 hours before a flight and still it looks like a frat party at many locations.  

 

The fail in the X program is that there is no periodic renewal to retain status.  Once you are what you are that is your lifetime status.  Hotels and airlines make you retain status yearly through revenue and nights.  I am a lifetime Titanium with Marriott and that required at least 600 nights ( have over 2000), 10 years at Platinum (reattained every  year) and a certain $ amount.  X should do the same.  I viewed program status as a vehicle for "can you fix this for me?" problem resolution, not for free stuff.  Missed flights, away from the ice machine etc.

 

Rules change all the time in these programs and almost never for the better.  Get used to it. You can take your business elsewhere but you have no status over there at all.  They really dont care that you were Zenith at X since there are no real status match programs.   

 

Most membership clubs have a "lounge dragon" checking credentials and kicking out the "I'm with him" add ons with no status other than knowing the status person.  Hotel lounges are famous for people holding the door open for extended friends and family killing the experience for just about everyone else.  

 

if profit, then X should allow again the Retreat  to casino Sapphire and above casino tier members (like me).

also solves your problem of periodic renewal since you have to achieve that tier every year 18months.

Edited April 10, 2022 by fstuff1

[fstuff1]

51 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Just did a quick check, looks to me like Zenith members are recognized.  Just some (not all) of what they get...

 

-Free laundry/dry cleaning

-Free internet

-discounts on a whole host of things like pictures

-charitable donation on the Guest's behalf

 

There's a whole litany of other things, too.

 

So, what Zenith's are saying is that those perks aren't enough.  They also want access to the things that those of us who paid for Suites have, but they don't want to pay for a suite?

 

The suite guests would have a legitimate beef about allowing non-suite passengers into their exclusive areas.

 

psst.. most those are the perks of Elite.

 

when did X add Zeniths and high value casino players into the Retreat?

 

And you keep harping about the price you paid for the suite should  give  you exclusive entitlement to the Retreat.

one can say high value casino players paid more to X than you for your suite...

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by fstuff1

[tfred]

1 hour ago, hcat said:

A number of years ago, in a huge marketing change,  Celeb and Royal took away exclusive Frequent Cruiser ( Elite/ Diamond) lounges and areas on some ships,  so they could start pushing the suites at the higher price points with expanded and exclusive amenities.  It was an affront at the time but they eventually found some other ways to make up for it and tried to keep everyone happy and coming back! 

 

Maybe now, they could carve out a small exclusive area for loyal Zenith guests to enjoy in  recognition of their loyalty. ( no suite guests allowed unless they are Zenith). Just need a small bar, plush  seating and a few upscale snacks.  Anyone can be a suite guest but not everyone will achieve ZENITH...!  We once had hopes but  believe we will remain E+ forever!

 

We are booked to cruise in a suite for the first time, but still value our loyalty status!

separate area isn't going to happen.  Has to be staffed, will be under utilized most of the day, Z's wouldn't like the view (if any) 

 

Zs would end up with add ons like priority seating in theater, maybe a specialty N/C

 

would be interesting to see the spending habits and profitability of Z Nation.  It may be lower than you think.  Low profit legacy customers are not a priority

[CAicruiser]

1 hour ago, hcat said:

A number of years ago, in a huge marketing change,  Celeb and Royal took away exclusive Frequent Cruiser ( Elite/ Diamond) lounges and areas on some ships,  so they could start pushing the suites at the higher price points with expanded and exclusive amenities.  It was an affront at the time but they eventually found some other ways to make up for it and tried to keep everyone happy and coming back! 

 

Maybe now, they could carve out a small exclusive area for loyal Zenith guests to enjoy in  recognition of their loyalty. ( no suite guests allowed unless they are Zenith). Just need a small bar, plush  seating and a few upscale snacks.  Anyone can be a suite guest but not everyone will achieve ZENITH...!  We once had hopes but  believe we will remain E+ forever!

 

We are booked to cruise in a suite for the first time, but still value our loyalty status!

Ah I like what you are saying 

Anyone can be a suite guest but not everyone will achieve ZENITH...! 

Every one in the suite can behave like a Millionaire But you can't be a Zenith if you are not. a millionaire.

They do have a lot of disposable incomes

[TrueCruiseaholic]

52 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

 

 

when did X add Zeniths and high value casino players into the Retreat?

 

 

 

Zeniths had access to Michael's Club in 2014 when it was created. At that time, it was Zeniths and top suites (Celebrity Suite and above). Sky suites were given access AFTER Zeniths.

 

Celebrity has every right to change Retreat Lounge from Suite/Zenith/VIP to solely suites. Similarly, they have every right to remove the free drinks for Elite and above. Maybe remove the free scoop of gelato. 

 

For Zenith guests who had Retreat Lounge access for several years (never Retreat sun deck access), removing access is like Celebrity removing any other loyalty benefit. 

[hcat]

When X was a  much smaller cruise line ( Mercury, Century) and not  overtly under the big Royal Tent  Celebrity was the best "secret at Sea."  Lovely ships,  great pricing, no big crowds,  and very congenial get togethers for frequent cruisers.  If you cruised 3 or 4 times a yr or more, you'd get to know most of the regulars and the staff. There were no drink packages, no suite envy, no dress code threads .....just fun and  country club elegance at sea! 

 

Times change..we loved the "new"  M Class, then S Class, now E Class..but those loyalists who still come  on board deserve  all the benefits they used to have and more.   I am happy some folks liked my idea about a small Zenith lounge....maybe someday!

 

Celebrity has the right to do what it wants... but just some thoughts about what they could do!

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by hcat

[C-Dragons]

48 minutes ago, CAicruiser said:

Ah I like what you are saying 

Anyone can be a suite guest but not everyone will achieve ZENITH...! 

Every one in the suite can behave like a Millionaire But you can't be a Zenith if you are not. a millionaire.

They do have a lot of disposable incomes

Sorry, but that statement is fallacious.

[C-Dragons]

20 minutes ago, hcat said:

When X was a  much smaller cruise line ( Mercury, Century) and not  overtly under the big Royal Tent  Celebrity was the best "secret at Sea."  Lovely ships,  great pricing, no big crowds,  and very congenial get togethers for frequent cruisers.  If you cruised 3 or 4 times a yr or more, you'd get to know most of the regulars and the staff. There were no drink packages, no suite envy, no dress code threads .....just fun and  country club elegance at sea! 

 

Times change..we loved the "new"  M Class, then S Class, now E Class..but those loyalists who still come  on board deserve  all the benefits they used to have and more.   I am happy some folks liked my idea about a small Zenith lounge....maybe someday!

I agree that X needs to provide a place (Zenith Lounge) for loyal guests to socialize. But the “Retreat” lounge  was designed for paying Suite guests and in reality isn’t large enough to accommodate all of them, at certain times, let alone other groups on board.

Edited April 10, 2022 by C-Dragons

[morpheusofthesea]

41 minutes ago, TrueCruiseaholic said:

 

Zeniths had access to Michael's Club in 2014 when it was created. At that time, it was Zeniths and top suites (Celebrity Suite and above). Sky suites were given access AFTER Zeniths.

Interesting..This all points to space allocated to suite venues. Ratios of suite guests to wait staff. Both are limited. "The big thing is service. (If a cruise line is going to try to attract a portion of the luxury cruise market it has to focus on service). The luxury cruiser never wants to wait; instant gratification is demanded. There should be simplicity (no annoyances) and peace of mind. Attention to detail, highly personalized and anticipatory service are musts." Dietmar W. Seatrade Cruise News

  Someones have to be excluded in order to provide this level of service demanded by this segment of the cruising population. "Furthermore, luxury clientele want 'exclusivity, bragging rights, things nobody else has."

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, CAicruiser said:

Ah I like what you are saying 

Anyone can be a suite guest but not everyone will achieve ZENITH...! 

Every one in the suite can behave like a Millionaire But you can't be a Zenith if you are not. a millionaire.

They do have a lot of disposable incomes

Yes you ought to see this pretend millionaire in his S3 suite, what a decadent life.

[NutsAboutGolf]

Wonder if there's any weight to this:

 

 

This is on their survey, they seem to stop care after 5+.  You'd think they'd want to know perhaps 6-10, 11-25, 25-50, 50-100, 100+ but they don't for some reason

[jcpc]

4 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Just did a quick check, looks to me like Zenith members are recognized.  Just some (not all) of what they get...

 

-Free laundry/dry cleaning

-Free internet

-discounts on a whole host of things like pictures

-charitable donation on the Guest's behalf

 

There's a whole litany of other things, too.

 

So, what Zenith's are saying is that those perks aren't enough.  They also want access to the things that those of us who paid for Suites have, but they don't want to pay for a suite?

 

The suite guests would have a legitimate beef about allowing non-suite passengers into their exclusive areas.

I believe you are a "recent" Celebrity cruiser therefore you probably do not know the history of the "Retreat" area on Celebrity.

 

The "Retreat" area was established on Celebrity in 2014, however it was called "Michael's Club" and it was a lounge area that  high level suite cruisers  (i.e., Penthouse, Royal, etc.)  and Zenith cruisers could utilize.  Sky Suite occupants were not allowed to access Michael's Club.  In 2014 the only "Retreat" area on any ship was the lounge -- there was no special sundeck area.

 

As things progressed at Celebrity, sky suite occupants were given use of "Michael's Club".  At that time "high level suite occupants" were not too happy that Sky Suites were allowed into Michael's Club!!!   Once a ship was revolutionized (or a new ship was built) "Michael's Club" became "The Retreat" and areas were added (sun deck, Luminae).  However, Zenith members were not given access to any of the other  newer "areas" but retained the privilege of sitting in the Retreat Lounge (Michael's Club).

 

So....I think the big beef with Zenith cruisers are that they were allowed to access "The Retreat Lounge" right from its inception in 2014 and now all of a sudden that "perk" or "privilege" or whatever you want to call it has been taken away from them.

 

You need "3000 points" to become Zenith.  Some of these Zenith members have over 9000 points and do not sail in suites......so that tells you exactly how many times they have sailed with Celebrity.  Now you can become "Zenith" by sailing a few times in a PH Suite (in my opinion, that doesn't make you a "loyal" cruiser).

 

I, myself, am a Zenith member who recently (within the past 4 or 5 years) started sailing in Suites so this change doesn't affect me in the least little bit. (But I've been with Celebrity since the first year they were in business - starting out sailing in inside cabins, and eventually "moving up" the outsides, balconies, etc.)   I would definitely call myself a LOYAL Celebrity cruiser.   HOWEVER, I can see why folks are upset.  I will say just about 95% of the time the "Retreat Lounge" is far from capacity (as a matter of fact most days and evenings it is EMPTY) so I don't believe there is any harm in letting Zenith members use the lounge (which they have had access to since its inception).

 

But according to you (who have sailed 3 times in a Sky Suite) you don't feel that Zenith members have paid for the "privilege" of sitting in the Retreat Lounge.  I think the fact that many of them have sailed over 200-300 times with Celebrity Cruises they have "more than paid for this perk"! 

 

Remember.....the "Retreat Lounge"/"Michaels Club" was not originally a perk for ALL suite members - only the upper echelon suite occupants and Zenith members.

 

But everyone is entitled to his/her opinion -- that's what makes the world go around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by jcpc

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

27 minutes ago, jcpc said:

The "Retreat" area was established on Celebrity in 2014, however it was called "Michael's Club" and it was a lounge area that  high level suite cruisers  (i.e., Penthouse, Royal, etc.)  and Zenith cruisers could utilize.  Sky Suite occupants were not allowed to access Michael's Club.  In 2014 the only "Retreat" area on any ship was the lounge -- there was no special sundeck area.

 

So....I think the big beef with Zenith cruisers are that they were allowed to access "The Retreat Lounge" right from its inception in 2014 and now all of a sudden that "perk" or "privilege" or whatever you want to call it has been taken away from them.

 

You need "3000 points" to become Zenith.  Some of these Zenith members have over 9000 points and do not sail in suites......so that tells you exactly how many times they have sailed with Celebrity.  Now you can become "Zenith" by sailing a few times in a PH Suite (in my opinion, that doesn't make you a "loyal" cruiser).

 

 I will say just about 95% of the time the "Retreat Lounge" is far from capacity (as a matter of fact most days and evenings it is EMPTY) so I don't believe there is any harm in letting Zenith members use the lounge (which they have had access to since its inception).

 

 

On my last cruise prior to the shutdown on an S class ship, you could have shot a cannon off and not hit anyone in the Retreat Lounge.  And the alleged "service" was nonexistent.  I was not impressed.

[jcpc]

6 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

On my last cruise prior to the shutdown on an S class ship, you could have shot a cannon off and not hit anyone in the Retreat Lounge.  And the alleged "service" was nonexistent.  I was not impressed.

Yes, I agree.  I've sailed 4 times since cruising "started back up" (twice on Edge and twice on Summit). On all 4 sailing the Retreat Lounge was DEAD ---- BUT Zeniths have been kicked out because "they didn't pay for the privilege of having a drink there".  Give me a break.

 

I sail quite regularly on Summit and usually the only people IN the lounge are the 2 or 3 "Zenith couples" that are on the sailing.  

[Oville]

5 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Just did a quick check, looks to me like Zenith members are recognized.  Just some (not all) of what they get...

 

-Free laundry/dry cleaning

-Free internet

-discounts on a whole host of things like pictures

-charitable donation on the Guest's behalf

 

There's a whole litany of other things, too.

 

So, what Zenith's are saying is that those perks aren't enough.  They also want access to the things that those of us who paid for Suites have, but they don't want to pay for a suite?

 

The suite guests would have a legitimate beef about allowing non-suite passengers into their exclusive areas.

Plus Premium Beverage Package.

[Straughn]

17 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

On my last cruise prior to the shutdown on an S class ship, you could have shot a cannon off and not hit anyone in the Retreat Lounge.  And the alleged "service" was nonexistent.  I was not impressed.

Your comment about The Retreat Lounge being empty mirrors my experience just before the shutdown and since cruising has returned. On my last pre Covid cruise, there were 10-12 individuals who I saw in the Lounge on a regular basis, all at differing times during the day. One afternoon, I had a lovely discussion with a retired lady, during afternoon tea. She was also a solo cruiser, so when we left, I asked if I would see her there for cocktails. She replied that she would not be there. Since she now had the premium  beverage package, she preferred going to different locations to experience the entertainment and have a cocktail. She said she found the Lounge boring during cocktail hour, didn’t want/need the snacks, and there was no one to talk to as the same folks were always there and only wanted to mix with their friends. 
 

I think this is true of many suite passengers now. The diehards always show up, but many prefer a more lively pre dinner experience.

[goofysmom99]

5 minutes ago, Straughn said:

I think this is true of many suite passengers now. The diehards always show up, but many prefer a more lively pre dinner experience.

Bingo!