Zenith back in the Retreat

[goofysmom99]

I have been and will continue to be perfectly content in any balcony cabin and Z benefits = premium package to be enjoyed anywhere, streaming wifi, shoreside concierge, laundry (my favorite), and the extra room goodies.  Just this afternoon, I needed to check something fairly technical for an upcoming cruise and being able to call shoreside concierge for a straight answer, rather than go through my TA, is right up there with laundry.  And nearly as appreciated, she followed-up with an email spelling everything out!  So personally, I don't want or need or care about The Retreat, but I'm really, really tickled with the other stuff. 🤗

[morpheusofthesea]

1 hour ago, jcpc said:

 

But according to you (who have sailed 3 times in a Sky Suite) you don't feel that Zenith members have paid for the "privilege" of sitting in the Retreat Lounge.

Non-suite Zeniths have paid for a privilege. Traveling for a number of years for close to $100 per person per day for a thousand days earns them recognition. It does not entitle them to taking away service and a seat in any of the limited venues of those passengers paying $1000 pppd. We stopped sailing with RCCL and NCL and will stop sailing all together should the trend impinge upon our having to wait for a table or a drink due to over crowded suite venues. So far we have enjoyed our stays in the top suites on the Celebrity Edge and Equinox in 2021. The Retreat venues have been booked solid with no noticeable service lapses. We have been fortunate to test these cruises every month for a week since July 2021. Do not know if the great service is due to the absence of non-suite Zeniths, but do know that it affected us with Pinnacles and non-Haven guests allowed in for a price of a meal.

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, jcpc said:

I believe you are a "recent" Celebrity cruiser therefore you probably do not know the history of the "Retreat" area on Celebrity.

 

The "Retreat" area was established on Celebrity in 2014, however it was called "Michael's Club" and it was a lounge area that  high level suite cruisers  (i.e., Penthouse, Royal, etc.)  and Zenith cruisers could utilize.  Sky Suite occupants were not allowed to access Michael's Club.  In 2014 the only "Retreat" area on any ship was the lounge -- there was no special sundeck area.

 

As things progressed at Celebrity, sky suite occupants were given use of "Michael's Club".  At that time "high level suite occupants" were not too happy that Sky Suites were allowed into Michael's Club!!!   Once a ship was revolutionized (or a new ship was built) "Michael's Club" became "The Retreat" and areas were added (sun deck, Luminae).  However, Zenith members were not given access to any of the other  newer "areas" but retained the privilege of sitting in the Retreat Lounge (Michael's Club).

 

So....I think the big beef with Zenith cruisers are that they were allowed to access "The Retreat Lounge" right from its inception in 2014 and now all of a sudden that "perk" or "privilege" or whatever you want to call it has been taken away from them.

 

You need "3000 points" to become Zenith.  Some of these Zenith members have over 9000 points and do not sail in suites......so that tells you exactly how many times they have sailed with Celebrity.  Now you can become "Zenith" by sailing a few times in a PH Suite (in my opinion, that doesn't make you a "loyal" cruiser).

 

I, myself, am a Zenith member who recently (within the past 4 or 5 years) started sailing in Suites so this change doesn't affect me in the least little bit. (But I've been with Celebrity since the first year they were in business - starting out sailing in inside cabins, and eventually "moving up" the outsides, balconies, etc.)   I would definitely call myself a LOYAL Celebrity cruiser.   HOWEVER, I can see why folks are upset.  I will say just about 95% of the time the "Retreat Lounge" is far from capacity (as a matter of fact most days and evenings it is EMPTY) so I don't believe there is any harm in letting Zenith members use the lounge (which they have had access to since its inception).

 

But according to you (who have sailed 3 times in a Sky Suite) you don't feel that Zenith members have paid for the "privilege" of sitting in the Retreat Lounge.  I think the fact that many of them have sailed over 200-300 times with Celebrity Cruises they have "more than paid for this perk"! 

 

Remember.....the "Retreat Lounge"/"Michaels Club" was not originally a perk for ALL suite members - only the upper echelon suite occupants and Zenith members.

 

But everyone is entitled to his/her opinion -- that's what makes the world go around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a person who cruises once/twice per year and will only cruise on Celebrity because they love the product, then that person is a loyal celebrity cruiser regardless of their tier status.  Loyalty perks change in many businesses it is what it is.

[TommyD3]

10 hours ago, graphicguy said:

I don’t know of any mainstream line that allows non-suite guests access to suite only areas.

Celebrity's parent company (Royal Caribbean) restored Pinnacle access to the top suite lounge on all sailings after March 15, 2022. They had already carved out Pinnacle only lounges on EVERY ship. Yes there are probably 10X the number of Pinnacles as there are Zeniths so it will induce much more crowding !!!

Edited April 11, 2022 by TommyD3

[mfs2k]

I propose a level above Zenith called CEO and it comes with an all access pass. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

23 minutes ago, TommyD3 said:

Celebrity's parent company (Royal Caribbean) restored Pinnacle access to the top suite lounge on all sailings after March 15, 2022. They had already carved out Pinnacle only lounges on EVERY ship. Yes there are probably 10X the number of Pinnacles as there are Zeniths so it will induce much more crowding !!!

In case this ever comes up during trivia...

 

Royal Caribbean International (RCI) = Cruise line

Royal Caribbean Group = Parent company to RCI, X and Silversea

[jcpc]

6 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

I agree that X needs to provide a place (Zenith Lounge) for loyal guests to socialize. But the “Retreat” lounge  was designed for paying Suite guests and in reality isn’t large enough to accommodate all of them, at certain times, let alone other groups on board.

Just one point:   The "Retreat" lounge (formerly named "Michael's Club) was NOT designed for paying Suite Guests.  It was designed for Zenith Members PLUS upper level suite guests.  And regarding being large enough -- whenever I'm on any ship the lounge is DEAD (i.e., nobody in it).  I think the only time it might get crowded is when the senior officers come in for 30 minutes to shake hands with everyone (this, mind you, was pre-COVID!)  The Retreat Outdoor Deck, however, is jam packed with suite occupants.  But the lounge is NOT packed. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by jcpc

[mac_tlc]

We have sailed in a SS four times on E-class since the restart and the Retreat lounge has never been crowded. I’m sure it could accommodate a few Zenith’s. On the other hand, I am not looking forward to the Royal suite lounge now. 

Seems to me, the disappointed Z’s need to cordially make there displeasure known to Andrea and LLP. 
 

Based on our experiences pre and post Covid, I think Royal and Celebrity both got it wrong.

 

mac_tlc

Edited April 11, 2022 by mac_tlc

[jagoffee]

On 4/9/2022 at 12:50 PM, TrueCruiseaholic said:

Heard from another cruiser who discussed the removal of Zenith access to Retreat Lounge with crew on a Celebrity ship.

 

The mentality behind the decision is that Celebrity corporate does not want to give Zeniths that were booking suites after the restart a reason to stop booking suites (a permanent price increase on Zenith members to maintain their benefits). The concern is that if Celebrity gives Retreat Lounge access back to Zeniths, Zenith members could actually sail in non-suites and get the benefits that they used to get while not sailing in suites. Essentially any reason to not book a suite has to be mitigated.

 

I look forward to the next class of Celebrity ships that are (guessing) twice the size of the Flora with only suites. Celebrity corporate has literally just told Zenith members that either the Zeniths cruise in a suite or Celebrity corporate does not want their business. I have heard from more than one Zenith member that they are curtailing their future Celebrity cruises (in some instances to zero).

 

A quick addition: a passive aggressive Zenith member sent an email to Celebrity that just had phrases like "$1, $5, $100" and then a postscript that said "hopefully you understand what I wrote since the only thing you understand is money." They were very proud of the idea, though we all know it will not make any difference.

Isn’t a Free Premium drink package or an free upgrade to a Premium drink package (if booked with AI Classic) one  of the benefits of the Zenith class?  Zenith’s not in a suite have never been able to dine in Luminae or use the Retreat Sun Deck.  

[LGW59]

5 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

Non-suite Zeniths have paid for a privilege. Traveling for a number of years for close to $100 per person per day for a thousand days earns them recognition. It does not entitle them to taking away service and a seat in any of the limited venues of those passengers paying $1000 pppd. We stopped sailing with RCCL and NCL and will stop sailing all together should the trend impinge upon our having to wait for a table or a drink due to over crowded suite venues. So far we have enjoyed our stays in the top suites on the Celebrity Edge and Equinox in 2021. The Retreat venues have been booked solid with no noticeable service lapses. We have been fortunate to test these cruises every month for a week since July 2021. Do not know if the great service is due to the absence of non-suite Zeniths, but do know that it affected us with Pinnacles and non-Haven guests allowed in for a price of a 

6 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

Non-suite Zeniths have paid for a privilege. Traveling for a number of years for close to $100 per person per day for a thousand days earns them recognition. It does not entitle them to taking away service and a seat in any of the limited venues of those passengers paying $1000 pppd. We stopped sailing with RCCL and NCL and will stop sailing all together should the trend impinge upon our having to wait for a table or a drink due to over crowded suite venues. So far we have enjoyed our stays in the top suites on the Celebrity Edge and Equinox in 2021. The Retreat venues have been booked solid with no noticeable service lapses. We have been fortunate to test these cruises every month for a week since July 2021. Do not know if the great service is due to the absence of non-suite Zeniths, but do know that it affected us with Pinnacles and non-Haven guests allowed in for a price of a meal.

I really don’t understand this post.

[canderson]

7 hours ago, jcpc said:

I believe you are a "recent" Celebrity cruiser therefore you probably do not know the history of the "Retreat" area on Celebrity.

 

The "Retreat" area was established on Celebrity in 2014, however it was called "Michael's Club" and it was a lounge area that  high level suite cruisers  (i.e., Penthouse, Royal, etc.)  and Zenith cruisers could utilize.  Sky Suite occupants were not allowed to access Michael's Club.  In 2014 the only "Retreat" area on any ship was the lounge -- there was no special sundeck area.

 

I, for one, am not a "recent" Celebrity cruiser, and I often enjoyed time in Michael's before it was any sort of 'high level suite' club, if it was indeed ever that before it became "Retreat" territory.  I enjoyed many a cigar and scotch there, even on those rare occasions when we were sailing in a Cat 2A veranda cabin.

 

One Michael's was in fact a VERY public venue, not just a relaxing lounge, but rather, hosting Perry White each night for the SRO crowds who seemed to adore him (Constellation).

 

So you'll need to help me out with a proper Michael's timeline.  My recollection differs.

[JFontaine]

Michael's - named for Michael Chandris - started as a cigar bar.  It had its own ventilation system. 

[jcpc]

44 minutes ago, canderson said:

I, for one, am not a "recent" Celebrity cruiser, and I often enjoyed time in Michael's before it was any sort of 'high level suite' club, if it was indeed ever that before it became "Retreat" territory.  I enjoyed many a cigar and scotch there, even on those rare occasions when we were sailing in a Cat 2A veranda cabin.

 

One Michael's was in fact a VERY public venue, not just a relaxing lounge, but rather, hosting Perry White each night for the SRO crowds who seemed to adore him (Constellation).

 

So you'll need to help me out with a proper Michael's timeline.  My recollection differs.

Your recollection is correct.  Michael’s Club was originally a cigar lounge, open to all who sailed on the ship.  I remember being in Michael’s Club on a lot of ships (Mercury, Galaxy, etc) when the guys in our group wanted a cigar.  That’s way back when cigar bars and smoking in general were popular.  And then Michael’s became a “piano bar” after the “cigar bar” became less popular and did indeed host Perry Grant.  (I think his name was Grant not White.). But in 2014 Michael’s Club began to convert to the Zenith/Suite Lounge much to the dismay of Perry Grant followers.

 

Currently on non-revolutionized ships Michael’s Club still exists but it serves as the “suite lounge”.  

Edited April 11, 2022 by jcpc

[verizon]

6 hours ago, jagoffee said:

Isn’t a Free Premium drink package or an free upgrade to a Premium drink package (if booked with AI Classic) one  of the benefits of the Zenith class?  Zenith’s not in a suite have never been able to dine in Luminae or use the Retreat Sun Deck.  

Before the AI ZENITHS get free premium drink package and stream WIFI 

With the AI I would consider that as a discount or free upgrade..

[the penguins]

5 hours ago, jcpc said:

Your recollection is correct.  Michael’s Club was originally a cigar lounge, open to all who sailed on the ship.  I remember being in Michael’s Club on a lot of ships (Mercury, Galaxy, etc) when the guys in our group wanted a cigar.  That’s way back when cigar bars and smoking in general were popular.  And then Michael’s became a “piano bar” after the “cigar bar” became less popular and did indeed host Perry Grant.  (I think his name was Grant not White.). But in 2014 Michael’s Club began to convert to the Zenith/Suite Lounge much to the dismay of Perry Grant followers.

 

Currently on non-revolutionized ships Michael’s Club still exists but it serves as the “suite lounge”.  

Indeed it was Perry Grant. Fantastic entertainer both in Michaels Club ( boy did you have to get there early and you wouldn't dare leave before the end) and also in the main theatre. Two totally different acts/shows.

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, verizon said:

Before the AI ZENITHS get free premium drink package and stream WIFI 

With the AI I would consider that as a discount or free upgrade..

The truth is AI has impacted X's most loyal passengers the most.  Loyalty no longer seems to have any meaning to the bean counters at Celebrity.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

58 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Indeed it was Perry Grant. Fantastic entertainer both in Michaels Club ( boy did you have to get there early and you wouldn't dare leave before the end) and also in the main theatre. Two totally different acts/shows.

 

Perry was around during our first years with Celebrity. We heard (on CC) of his following and made a point to see what all the fuss was about. It was indeed a crowded and lively place - it just wasn't for us.

 

Tom

[mfs2k]

47 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Loyalty no longer seems to have any meaning to the bean counters at Celebrity.

Perhaps the bean counters will keep Celebrity solvent. 
 

In order to sell suites for so much more than a regular cabin, Celebrity has to add value to the purchase. The retreat deck and lounge adds value. Giving access to Zeniths does not add any additional revenue.

 

You’re not leaving Celebrity any time soon but maybe you’ll upgrade to a suite.

 

Perhaps a Zenith perk can be a 20% suite upgrade discount. Or Move-up priority. Hmmm…

[chemmo]

30 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

 

 

Perhaps a Zenith perk can be a 20% suite upgrade discount. Or Move-up priority. Hmmm…

I wonder if anyone is really scratching their heads about how to not only ‘reward’ Zenith but other levels too? I am sure many E and E+ guests would be happy with any discount (we certainly would!).

 

Surely there must be options than are actually mutually beneficial. The Zenith feels they have a reward for loyalty, Celebrity encourages a sale….

[cruising teacher]

1 hour ago, the penguins said:

The truth is AI has impacted X's most loyal passengers the most.  Loyalty no longer seems to have any meaning to the bean counters 

1 hour ago, the penguins said:

The truth is AI has impacted X's most loyal passengers the most.  Loyalty no longer seems to have any meaning to the bean counters at Celebrity.

Perhaps instead of “honoring” the Top Cruiser for Loyalty, Celebrity should “honor” the Top Spender.

[graphicguy]

20 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I was told you can only downgrade to regular Gold (non-Delta) or Green.  Cannot downgrade to co-branded (Delta, Hilton, etc) cards.  If you haven't heard, now AMEX plat allows you to use the digital credit for Hulu which works out for me, yet not sure if that's enough.  They'll most likely have some tweaks between now and a year

Thanks,….didn’t know that.  

 

There are perks that pop up from time-to-time that I take advantage of.  But, when I was still working and used the AMEX all the time, I got a lot more benefit.

 

Delta keeps sending me enticements to get their AMEX card.  Up until now, I saw no need.  One AMEX is enough.  

 

Makes sense the only downgrade AMEX would offer would be their own branded card.

 

Might call and threaten to downgrade and see if they’ll offer me at least one annual fee waiver.

[graphicguy]

This whole discussion kind of flies in the face of inclusion.

 

Once Celebrity announced their “All Included” plan, I saw a lot of hand wringing about allowing others who weren’t Zeniths getting drinks, internet, and other perks.  The argument was “common folk” didn’t deserve those perks since they weren’t Zeniths.

 

Yet, when Suite/Retreat guests enjoy their perks, there’s hand wringing because Zeniths don’t get them, too?

 

Maybe a compromise….the Retreat isn’t as crowded mid-morning or mid-afternoon.  Maybe allow Zeniths a couple of hours in the Retreat during those times?

 

Regarding the Retreat, sailed the APEX in February.  Retreat wasn’t crowded, but had plenty of guests taking up most chairs/couches/tables during pre-pst meals and shows.  I think adding more guests into the Retreat now would indeed make it crowded.

 

Pool area was bordering on being crowded.  Don’t think you want to add more there.

Edited April 11, 2022 by graphicguy

[NutsAboutGolf]

33 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Thanks,….didn’t know that.  

 

There are perks that pop up from time-to-time that I take advantage of.  But, when I was still working and used the AMEX all the time, I got a lot more benefit.

 

Delta keeps sending me enticements to get their AMEX card.  Up until now, I saw no need.  One AMEX is enough.  

 

Makes sense the only downgrade AMEX would offer would be their own branded card.

 

Might call and threaten to downgrade and see if they’ll offer me at least one annual fee waiver.

You can use the online chat feature too, just ask tell the “bot” you want a retention agent 

[RichYak]

31 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Makes sense the only downgrade AMEX would offer would be their own branded card.

 

Might call and threaten to downgrade and see if they’ll offer me at least one annual fee waiver.

Credit card issuers typically don't allow you to change to a different branded product. Also true in your case is that Amex Platinum is a charge (not credit) card and you can only change to another charge card (Amex Gold), so you're even more limited in your choices.

 

Also, you are not likely to get a customer retention offer by threatening to downgrade. Those are for customers looking to cancel.

[graphicguy]

Just now, RichYak said:

Credit card issuers typically don't allow you to change to a different branded product. Also true in your case is that Amex Platinum is a charge (not credit) card and you can only change to another charge card (Amex Gold), so you're even more limited in your choices.

 

Also, you are not likely to get a customer retention offer by threatening to downgrade. Those are for customers looking to cancel.

Makes sense.  True on all counts...especially my mistake of claiming AMEX as a credit card.  It's not.  It's a charge card, as you point out.

 

Regarding my history with Celebrity, I took my first Celebrity cruise on the Solstice 10 years ago.

 

I'm not a person who believes in entitlement.  That doesn't make me a good or a bad person.  Like in life, nothing is promised to me.  I have "achieved" (all I did was take cruises on their ships...not sure that's an achievement) Elite level on Celebrity.  I appreciate the perks and freebies they give me as a result.  In no way do I think they need to give me "perks".

 

I book them because I like the experience.  I like the Retreat experience even more and am willing to pay for the privilege.  As such, I'm not going to demand Celebrity give me perks, regardless of how many cruises I take.