Carnival Triumph to be “Sunshined”

[Hotdog 52]

Same for a refurbished car.

[bar1068]

How could anyone possibly have been fooled? With all the rhetoric and complaining that went on here, and apparently still does, how is one still fooled?

[chengkp75]

How could anyone possibly have been fooled? With all the rhetoric and complaining that went on here, and apparently still does, how is one still fooled?

 

Probably because only 5% of the cruising public reads CC.

[Tapi]

I guess my issue is I just don't feel like Carnival "hawked" Sunshine as new.

 

 

Except for the “NEW!” banner that they placed on their website when they introduced the Sunshine. [emoji23]

 

 

 

 

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[bar1068]

I understand that, but I also think you would agree that even a ship with 22 years on her still has a lot of life left to live and live well. I think you would also agree that when a ship changes hands or is significantly overhauled, it is common to change the name.

 

Personally, if anyone does the SLIGHTEST bit of research before booking the Sunshine, you will know that she was launched in 1995 as the Destiny...and all the issues that went with Destiny.

 

 

I don't feel a bit sorry if anyone thinks they have been "deceived" just as I think it is asinine that people don't know that the MDR comes with your fare or any other basic misunderstandings of new cruises that are posted on this board simply because they are too lazy to research their vacation that they are paying thousands of dollars to take.

 

Probably because only 5% of the cruising public reads CC.

 

True, and the rest seem to do little to no "research" when planning. But the fuss and uproar from over 5 years ago, and again now because Carnival put a "new" banner across the picture of the Sunshine in it's list of ships, is beyond incredible. Carnival did not hide what was being done to the Destiny, there were videos and loads of information on their site back then about the refurbishment, I followed it because I was somewhat fascinated by what they did and how they did it. Other industries articles made statements that so much was done, it was practically a new ship, but I get the difference.

 

I certainly won't spar with you over ship designs and specifics. I do enjoy reading the accurate info you provide here but I'm of the opinion enough was done to Sunshine, that the rather simple tag of "new" was ok...technically not accurate completely, but not so far off to cause all of the fuss. And if people were "deceived", they are largely to blame. MANY knew Sunshine was not a completely new ship...I and others knew from our planning, I'm sure many more were also. If some felt duped, oddly, I don't recall reading that, but I put that largely on them and their lack of planning...much like has been stated in previous replies here of recent stories about people not knowing dining in the MDR is included in their cruise fare, or that using your cell phone in the middle of the ocean was going to cost you.

 

You mentioned in a previous post the difference of an overhaul vs a refurbishment, which I get, but do you recall the original Sunshine dry dock was extended about a month, causing the cancelation of the first 2 scheduled Mediterranean cruises so auxillary power could be installed on Sunshine in the wake of the Triumph debacle. First ship Carnival installed that on after the heat they endured from the Triumph fire. Maybe not something to brag about, probably should already been done, but I'd think a significant improvement that was part of the Sunshine make over, and no, no enough to call the ship completely new.

 

At least the ship made it across the Atlantic on it's Transatlantic voyage after dry dock without listing severely, as was guaranteed by a few posters here because the designers did not know what they were doing when they re-designed the ship.

[cruizinisthebest]

Ships are talked about and discussed beyond cruise critic. And not just on social media. This page is the only collective group of folks where some seem to be unable to let go of what Carnival decided to do with one ship years ago. I know people who went on it having sailed other lines (NCL) and found it to be a great ship. I don't know if they thought it was new or not.

 

I can understand why anyone that looks forward to main theater and comedy shows would take issue with the Sunshine. The design of those two venues is straight up awful. And the main theater they turned around and repeated on the Vista. But aside from that, having been on the Vista and the Sunshine and not caring one bit about main theater shows, I love both of those ships and didn't find them anymore crowded than any other ship I've been on during peak times.

 

In any case, I thought this thread was about the Triumph. Does anyone have any insight as to what they might do with it? I know the Victory, Triumph's sister ship, was dry docked with new rooms added. Not sure what else. The Triumph already has the 2.0 upgrades. I guess I really want to know if the grand scenic and scenic oceanview rooms will be added - as I have 4Js booked on deck 9. Only other thing I hope is that they won't make the comedy club a closet like they did on the Sunshine. I still think there has to be a way to fix that!

[chengkp75]

Funny you mention the "auxiliary generators" that Carnival promised to install. I don't believe the Sunshine got this, and I don't believe any of Carnival's ships received these. Carnival found that a much less expensive rerouting of the power cables from the forward engine room to outside the after engine room, would, in the case of an engine room fire like the Splendor or Triumph, that total power would not be lost, and so this was the permanent fix for the problem, much less costly than a new generator, and they are hoping that the concept of "additional auxiliary generator for essential hotel services" will quietly fade into history. I believe Sunshine was the first ship to have this cabling rerouted. The other reason the shipyard was extended was to repair/replace the fire suppression systems, that were found to be systemically flawed in most of the ships built at Fincantieri, and these flaws were never discovered despite onboard testing and maintenance, and annual inspection and testing by a third party fire equipment company. Necessary modifications? Yes. But I hardly think that what amounts to a "maritime recall" is worthy of being called a "significant improvement".

 

But, to each their own. Be happy with the Sunshine, and the "new" Triumph, just know that at their current age, the maintenance costs during drydocking (and they must drydock twice as often as newer ships) has increased greatly just for hull and piping repairs/renewals, and so either fares will rise for an older ship, or costs will be shaved elsewhere.

[richstowe]

Funny you mention the "auxiliary generators" that Carnival promised to install. I don't believe the Sunshine got this, and I don't believe any of Carnival's ships received these. Carnival found that a much less expensive rerouting of the power cables from the forward engine room to outside the after engine room, would, in the case of an engine room fire like the Splendor or Triumph, that total power would not be lost, and so this was the permanent fix for the problem, much less costly than a new generator, and they are hoping that the concept of "additional auxiliary generator for essential hotel services" will quietly fade into history. I believe Sunshine was the first ship to have this cabling rerouted. The other reason the shipyard was extended was to repair/replace the fire suppression systems, that were found to be systemically flawed in most of the ships built at Fincantieri, and these flaws were never discovered despite onboard testing and maintenance, and annual inspection and testing by a third party fire equipment company. Necessary modifications? Yes. But I hardly think that what amounts to a "maritime recall" is worthy of being called a "significant improvement".

 

But, to each their own. Be happy with the Sunshine, and the "new" Triumph, just know that at their current age, the maintenance costs during drydocking (and they must drydock twice as often as newer ships) has increased greatly just for hull and piping repairs/renewals, and so either fares will rise for an older ship, or costs will be shaved elsewhere.

Oh yeah , the famous "auxiliary generators" . I wondered what happened to this issue .

Thanks for answering this forgotten (by me :o) story .

[jsglow]

Thank you again for sharing your expertise and vast knowledge

 

I actually agree with you regarding the comedy venue and I'm not a huge fan of the dual use theater. But certainly the latter is the future wave for Carnival as all the new builds now incorporate that multi-purpose concept.

 

Not being snarky, but did you sail Destiny and/or Sunshine? Look, of course we all respect your right to sail whatever you want but I'm just wondering if you have actual experience with the ship.

[jsglow]

What was done to Destiny/Sunshine was, IMHO, far from a "complete re-engineering" of the ship. The "few steps short" of replacing the keel and engines would have to be great, huge, expensive steps, since the make-over cost $150M, rather than the $750M that the Breeze cost the year before. Adding a deck makes this a "major" refurbishment, but certainly not a "re-engineering". Did they replace the entire infrastructure of the ship to accomplish the make-over, including adding the deck? No. They added incremental systems to the existing engineering to accomplish what was desired. By the way, it is interesting to note that even with the addition of a partial deck, Carnival still lists the GT for Sunshine as the same as for Destiny.

 

"She's a different ship on every level from the customer's perspective", this was my point in my first post on this thread, my perspective is totally different than the normal customer. I'm the "man behind the curtain" who sees the challenges that come with operating aging ships. More maintenance with the same manpower, additional cost of maintenance having to balance with projected revenue, etc.

 

We're just going to have to disagree on this and that's perfectly fine. I'll let the behind the scenes issues associated with a 20+ hull be Carnival's problem. But if they bought 10-15 years for $155MM, perhaps that's a great deal. Again, I appreciate your input.

[martinchem]

The Destiny to Sunshine was awesome, whatever they do with Triumph will be pleasing to me I am sure.

[Micahs Grandad]

I actually agree with you regarding the comedy venue and I'm not a huge fan of the dual use theater. But certainly the latter is the future wave for Carnival as all the new builds now incorporate that multi-purpose concept.

 

Not being snarky, but did you sail Destiny and/or Sunshine? Look, of course we all respect your right to sail whatever you want but I'm just wondering if you have actual experience with the ship.

 

Never did sail on the Destiny. My aversion to the Sunshine and also now the Vista class is based on what I have read on the boards. From what we have heard the ship is not for us.

[CruiseAdict218]

We never felt the crowding was a big issue for us when we sailed on the Sunshine, she’s actually one of our favorite ships. With that being said never got to sail on her as the Destiny (Bummed about that). Excited to see what they will bring to the Triumph, considering she has a majority if not all the 2.0 features, other than the Serenity deck? They also probably won’t add an extra deck considering one was added when she was built. We are planning a cruise next year on her so I’m pretty excited and she was my first ship so all the better. I wonder if and when assuming in 6 years they will Sunshine the Victory.

[nicole9s]

We never felt the crowding was a big issue for us when we sailed on the Sunshine, she’s actually one of our favorite ships. With that being said never got to sail on her as the Destiny (Bummed about that). Excited to see what they will bring to the Triumph, considering she has a majority if not all the 2.0 features, other than the Serenity deck? They also probably won’t add an extra deck considering one was added when she was built. We are planning a cruise next year on her so I’m pretty excited and she was my first ship so all the better. I wonder if and when assuming in 6 years they will Sunshine the Victory.

well, to 'Sunshine' it, in addition to Serenity, they'd have to

convert/'upgrade' the spa

add the water works and move Camp Ocean to deck 10

remove the pool and retractable roof from 9 Aft and put in the Havana bar

take out deck 3 of the theater and add cabins (and theoretically convert theater to liquid lounge)

take out deck 4 of the mid restaurant and add Library Bar, steakhouse, sushi and piano bar

convert the Oxford Bar to the Limelight Lounge on 4

take out the lounge on 5 Aft and make it more cabins

convert the rest of deck 5 from the casino to the 'new' cabins into Ocean Plaza/Red Frog Pub.

Plus rebrand things like Pixels and JavaBlue/Shake Spot and reconfigure the Lido buffet.

I may be missing some things.

 

I think the things I'd personally love to see the most are the conversion to Ocean Plaza and the moving/enlarging of Camp Ocean.

 

 

 

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[nealstuber]

If the were going to make and old ship “new”, I never understood why they didn’t start with the Fantasy Class instead of the Destiny class. I’d love to see them bolt two of them together catamaran style and put MSC Seaside like accommodations balconies on the cross span.

 

 

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[djcass4199]

 

I think the things I'd personally love to see the most are the conversion to Ocean Plaza and the moving/enlarging of Camp Ocean.

 

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Ocean Plaza is IMHO one of the best things they did with the Dream and Vista classes. Putting the house band on a dinky stage in the middle of Promenade and having people dancing pretty much in the middle of the Promenade walkway as on the Fantasy class and Conquest class ships is just not efficient and causes way too much congestion.

[tidecat]

If the were going to make and old ship “new”, I never understood why they didn’t start with the Fantasy Class instead of the Destiny class. I’d love to see them bolt two of them together catamaran style and put MSC Seaside like accommodations balconies on the cross span.

Less bang for Carnival’s buck that way. The Fantasy class ships fit in certain ports that larger ships do not (Tampa, Jacksonville, and Baltimore) due to height restrictions. The extra length could also be an issue - Carnival Fantasy is 855 feet long; even Symphony of the Seas, which is three times the size by volume (which is what Gross Tonnage actually measures) is not even 50% longer at 1,188 feet. Of course if Carnival chops up one ship to lengthen another, Carnival has fewer ships, which reduces or eliminates service at another port. Even putting a prefabricated expansion section (like the Norwegian Crown to Balmoral conversion) may require significant work to the propulsion system since those propellers don’t turn themselves.

 

Moving the lifeboats to be on a promenade would essentially kill two decks on the Fantasy class - one for the actual promenade/boat deck, and then the deck above it for lifeboat davits. Decks 6 and 7 would have to be swapped with Decks 8 and 9 - relocating the Galley and altering the Show Lounge would likely be the dealbreakers, especially since there would only be one deck with unobstructed balcony views.

[SNJCruisers]

The bottom line is that it's a ship that was built in 1999 and it'll be reconfigured with some newer amenities to appeal to a certain demographic. I fortunately have moved on from that demographic and only like to cruise on the newer ships and I am looking forward to sailing on the Celebrity Edge after she has just over a year under her belt.

With many future projects coming out over the next few years such as the LNG ships from Carnival, the Leonardo Project from NCL, the World Class ships from MSC and the adults only ship(s) from Virgin, there are many more state of the art builds to be excited about as far as I am concerned instead of being excited about a Carnival rebranding of a ship that will be 20 years old when the refurbishment has been completed.

[Computer Nerd]

Never did sail on the Destiny. My aversion to the Sunshine and also now the Vista class is based on what I have read on the boards. From what we have heard the ship is not for us.

 

Since many of us have thoroughly enjoyed the Sunshine, you may be giving more weight to the negative reviews than they deserve. I would never make a decision to sail or not sail a ship based purely on an opinionated review and instead prefer to find out for myself (and yes, I have sailed the Sunshine and will do so again in a few months).

[Micahs Grandad]

Ocean Plaza is IMHO one of the best things they did with the Dream and Vista classes. Putting the house band on a dinky stage in the middle of Promenade and having people dancing pretty much in the middle of the Promenade walkway as on the Fantasy class and Conquest class ships is just not efficient and causes way too much congestion.

 

Very true. Hard to listen to a band with all of the noise and smoke coming from the casino, not to mention the people walking back and forth.

 

Conquest class has open area one deck below the promenade deck that could easily house the cover band in the evening but they choose not to.

[Micahs Grandad]

Since many of us have thoroughly enjoyed the Sunshine, you may be giving more weight to the negative reviews than they deserve. I would never make a decision to sail or not sail a ship based purely on an opinionated review and instead prefer to find out for myself (and yes, I have sailed the Sunshine and will do so again in a few months).

 

Your money your choice. Lots of choices out there and we choose to avoid ships with much too small comedy venues and main theatre.

 

Since we know this to be true we are basing our decision based on facts not opinions.

[quickrate]

It is there model now, thru Panorama it will not be changing.

I heard from the same service desk person on Horizon that told me about the Triumph refurb that the larger ships after the Panorama will go back to the full showroom design. I sure hope this is true as I really hate that design on Vista class and sunshine..

Pat

[Micahs Grandad]

I heard from the same service desk person on Horizon that told me about the Triumph refurb that the larger ships after the Panorama will go back to the full showroom design. I sure hope this is true as I really hate that design on Vista class and sunshine..

Pat

 

That would be great. Hopefully they will do the same with the comedy club venue

[jsglow]

Never did sail on the Destiny. My aversion to the Sunshine and also now the Vista class is based on what I have read on the boards. From what we have heard the ship is not for us.

 

Here's your challenge going forward Micah. The Sunshine retrofit served as the prototype for future Carnival builds. As you know, the Liquid Lounge is now the standard for the main theater as Carnival has worked hard to 'multipurpose' the various public spaces. (TBD as to how that is handled on the new LNGs.) I too love the Conquest class platform, probably as my preferred ships. I do think I'll try the 2.0 Legend as we enjoyed Miracle. But soon enough all those ships will be relegated to ports with low bridges or 3-4-5 day itineraries and we'll be left with Vista class (and beyond) boats where the revenue maximizing per square foot model is taken to a new level. I just got off the nearly 20 year old Golden Princess. Boy did I love her open, uncluttered decks for glacier viewing.

[Micahs Grandad]

Here's your challenge going forward Micah. The Sunshine retrofit served as the prototype for future Carnival builds. As you know, the Liquid Lounge is now the standard for the main theater as Carnival has worked hard to 'multipurpose' the various public spaces. (TBD as to how that is handled on the new LNGs.) I too love the Conquest class platform, probably as my preferred ships. I do think I'll try the 2.0 Legend as we enjoyed Miracle. But soon enough all those ships will be relegated to ports with low bridges or 3-4-5 day itineraries and we'll be left with Vista class (and beyond) boats where the revenue maximizing per square foot model is taken to a new level. I just got off the nearly 20 year old Golden Princess. Boy did I love her open, uncluttered decks for glacier viewing.

 

Carnival seems to have decided to go in a certain direction which does not fit our needs as well as before. As a result we are now cruising mostly with Princess and seeing the world.

 

no regrets here but do wish they would combine their loyalty programs but that does not seem to be in the cards.