Suggestions RCL needs to do to get people cruising again

[NateUpNorth]

31 minutes ago, mek said:

And that is exactly what I think the majority of people will do - wait to book much closer to the departure date - at least for a while.

 

Agree completely.

In the face of people doing exactly that, which I think will be a majority, in order to get commitments for people’s vacation plans they’ll have to do something with final payments/deposits.

I’ll commit 12 months out if I don’t have a large deposit due till 30 days out. Still mentally and financially committed to going also. ( my excursions and packages will be purchased and planned)

[Biker19]

1 minute ago, NateUpNorth said:

I’ll commit 12 months out if I don’t have a large deposit due till 30 days out.

Most of the rest of the rest of the world is already under those rules, the big diff is they don't get price drops; careful what you wish for.

[ipeeinthepool]

16 minutes ago, hazence said:

Can you say with any scientific certainty that a senior from a zip code with no positive cases over many weeks would pose any more of these risks than a 39 yr old subway commuter from NYC?

 

An outbreak could be started by any one person and then “overwhelm medical facilities.”  Any outbreak “puts first responders at risk.” 
 

That’s a false sense of security. 
 

Our daughter is a physician at a large regional hospital also in SC but another county than ours. Over these weeks, they have had only ONE hospitalized COVID19 patient and not in intensive care.  
 

Fact is...conditions are very different parts of the country. You can ban by age demographics but regional demographics create a level of risk as well.  

 

 

 

The answer is yes, but you seem to be missing the point.  The senior with pre-existing conditions from any part of the country is more likely to have a poor outcome than the 39 yr old subway worker from New York.  The argument isn't that the Senior is more of a risk to infect people but that the ships facilities will be overwhelmed by seniors should an outbreak occur.

 

Now it's a different argument, if you say you want to ban people from New York/New Jersey, Italy, Spain or China.

Edited April 21, 2020 by ipeeinthepool

[hazence]

4 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

The answer is yes, but you seem to be missing the point.  The senior from any part of the country is more likely to have a poor outcome than the 39 yr old subway worker from. New York.  The argument isn't that the Senior is more of a risk to infect people but that the ships facilities will be overwhelmed by seniors should an outbreak occur.

 

Now it's a different argument, if you say you want to ban people from New York/New Jersey, Italy, Spain or China.

You can ban by age...by you will never be able to ba

 

4 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

The answer is yes, but you seem to be missing the point.  The senior from any part of the country is more likely to have a poor outcome than the 39 yr old subway worker from. New York.  The argument isn't that the Senior is more of a risk to infect people but that the ships facilities will be overwhelmed by seniors should an outbreak occur.

 

Now it's a different argument, if you say you want to ban people from New York/New Jersey, Italy, Spain or China.

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by hazence
Mistake in quoting

[NateUpNorth]

3 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Most of the rest of the rest of the world is already under those rules, the big diff is they don't get price drops; careful what you wish for.

 

Pre-Covid in the last couple years were you seeing big price drops inside final payments?

i thought they had come out and said they were doing away with the practice and would sail empty cabins instead if need be.

[time4u2go]

7 minutes ago, zekekelso said:

the way it works under US federal law (no idea how this applies to cruise ships) is that you can discriminate freely against an unprotected class (eg young people) but can only discriminate against a protected class (eg old people) if (1) you can show the discrimination serves a necessary purpose and (2) show that the discrimination you propose is the least intrusive way of accomplishing that purpose. There’s no way a blanket ban on 70+ cruisers meets the second objective, but requiring a doctors note might pass muster. 

What do you mean by "protected" and "unprotected"?

[LMaxwell]

Just now, NateUpNorth said:

 

Pre-Covid in the last couple years were you seeing big price drops inside final payments?

i thought they had come out and said they were doing away with the practice and would sail empty cabins instead if need be.

 

There were still plenty of last minute deals. Of course a publicly traded company in a bull market is going to publicly say they aren't going to drop prices...but they did plenty. 

[NateUpNorth]

Just now, LMaxwell said:

 

There were still plenty of last minute deals. Of course a publicly traded company in a bull market is going to publicly say they aren't going to drop prices...but they did plenty. 

 

To get people booking again for following seasons they’re gonna have to do something though because the amount of posts with people saying they’ll walk from deposits to avoid giving RCL more money is interesting, as is the “never again so far out” crowd.

 

Last minute deals is a very near term strategy.

[Biker19]

5 minutes ago, NateUpNorth said:

 

Pre-Covid in the last couple years were you seeing big price drops inside final payments?

i thought they had come out and said they were doing away with the practice and would sail empty cabins instead if need be.

Inside final payment, yes, inside 30 days (which was their promise), very rare - most big drops seem to be about 60 days out. But, drops inside final were getting rarer. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Biker19

[LMaxwell]

Just now, NateUpNorth said:

 

To get people booking again for following seasons they’re gonna have to do something though because the amount of posts with people saying they’ll walk from deposits to avoid giving RCL more money is interesting, as is the “never again so far out” crowd.

 

Last minute deals is a very near term strategy.

 

They are going to have to assure me I won't be indefinitely stranded aboard one of their vessels should a problem arise.  That's what it will take.  I'm not easily wowed by their fake sales and three card monte math games.  

[hazence]

Here ‘s another issue with banning by age.  What age?

 

i have neighbors who are retired and in their 50’s...who have underlying conditions...or are undergoing chemo...or have asthma.
 

I also have neighbors in their 70s that are part of the advanced hiking group, that are in the cycling club, and that vigorously work out daily. 

 

In addition to banning a certain age group, in order to mitigate the issues cited here, you  would have to have a truthful health assessment of everyone who boards. Because that 50 year old that looks fine...might have chronic lung disease .  Her tablemate  might be just recovering from chemo. The young guy in the cabin next door might have emphysema.   All young and seemingly healthy...all at greater risk ...they could overwhelm cruise medical services very easily as well.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by hazence

[ipeeinthepool]

15 minutes ago, hazence said:

 All young and seemingly healthy...all at greater risk ...they could overwhelm cruise medical services very easily as well.

 

 

Sorry, this just isn't what the data has shown.  Sure there are some young people with underlying conditions that may get sick, but the percentage of senior cruises with underlying conditions is much, much higher.  Covid-19 has affected older people much more than younger people.  Seniors have experienced far more complications from Covid-19 and fatalities are much higher for seniors. 

 

Should younger people with risk factors stay home and not cruise?  Absolutely.

[hazence]

3 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Sorry, this just isn't what the data has shown.  Sure there are some young people with underlying conditions that may get sick, but the percentage of senior cruises with underlying conditions is much, much higher.  Covid-19 has affected older people much more than younger people.  Seniors have experienced far more complications from Covid-19 and fatalities are much higher for seniors. 

 

Should younger people with risk factors stay home and not cruise?  Absolutely.

 

[zekekelso]

51 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

What do you mean by "protected" and "unprotected"?

There are specific classes written into federal law that are protected. So there are strong barriers if you want to discriminate on the basis of sex, race, religion, veteran status, etc. Federal law specifically mentions “old age” as a protected class. But young age is an unprotected class businesses have more more freedom to discriminate against. 

[time4u2go]

1 minute ago, zekekelso said:

There are specific classes written into federal law that are protected. So there are strong barriers if you want to discriminate on the basis of sex, race, religion, veteran status, etc. Federal law specifically mentions “old age” as a protected class. But young age is an unprotected class businesses have more more freedom to discriminate against. 

Are pregnant women not a protected class?  I would think discriminating against them would be similar to the other examples you mentioned.

[hazence]

Well, this is now one of those discussions based on “data”...and I’m not much a fan of data these days. Too much data that we have relied on has proven faulty. The data on the number of virus deaths for example...when some places substitute dying WITH COVID...in contrast to dying FROM COVID.

I believe that density...whether in nursing homes...or on cruise ships...or in crowded urban conditions is the main issue that must be addressed. A cruise ship packed with people under 55 while any threat of COVID19 remains...will still pose serious concerns.

[Booking It]

21 hours ago, Kokomo91165 said:

4.  Reduce 200% single supplement to 150% for 2020 sailings 

I second this! I have a solo cabin booked as a B2B on the Harmony in July/August. I'm going to cancel today, because final payment is coming up in a few days and I don't want $3,000 tied up in a vacation that probably won't happen. 

 

I'm a teacher, so I have to wait to travel until next summer (I hate traveling over winter break... the Chicago weather in December makes me too anxious to fly). All of the ships that have solo cabins are going to be in places that I don't want to go (Alaska & Europe). I just wanted to go on a "simple" trip to Florida and sit on a ship for two weeks. I don't even care about the ports. I just wanted to be on the ship.

 

The single supplement on the Symphony is WAY more than what I want to spend. I like the newer and bigger ships, so I am not considering other ones. It looks like my B2B (that I've always wanted to do!) is going to turn into a single week. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Booking It

[PhillyFan33579]

1 hour ago, CruisingAlong4Now said:

 

So no one over age 60? or age 65? No one who has received chemo for cancer and survived? No one with MS? CF? Lupus?Psoriasis?  Rheumatoid arthritis? About 35 million Americans have diabetes - they can't sail either huh? Oh, and I guess you also don't want them at amusement parks. Or staying in hotels? or flying in airplanes? or in movie theaters? These places are ripe for infections. Can't take a chance.

 

Please post your thoughts on the Special Interest Cruising Board: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/114-disabled-cruise-travel/.  See what reception you get there.

If you read everything the CDC has put out, there is no way any cruise ship is going to have the facilities to treat passengers who may become infected with COVID-19. So the only way I see cruise ships resuming operations sooner than later is to take every step possible to eliminate someone getting sick during a cruise, which in my opinion would include banning anyone in a high risk category along with some kind of rigorous screening of all passengers at the terminal. All it would take is one ship to have another outbreak and you are likely looking at the end of the cruise industry in the US. Eventually this virus will be under control and a vaccine will be developed, which would allow cruise lines to cut back on restrictions in the future. Or the cruise industry could simply wait for this to happen and not offer any cruises in the interim. 

[Ourusualbeach]

58 minutes ago, hazence said:

Here ‘s another issue with banning by age.  What age?

 

i have neighbors who are retired and in their 50’s...who have underlying conditions...or are undergoing chemo...or have asthma.
 

I also have neighbors in their 70s that are part of the advanced hiking group, that are in the cycling club, and that vigorously work out daily. 

 

In addition to banning a certain age group, in order to mitigate the issues cited here, you  would have to have a truthful health assessment of everyone who boards. Because that 50 year old that looks fine...might have chronic lung disease .  Her tablemate  might be just recovering from chemo. The young guy in the cabin next door might have emphysema.   All young and seemingly healthy...all at greater risk ...they could overwhelm cruise medical services very easily as well.

 

 

 

 

It is not about the fact that over 70 year olds can spread it any more than under 70 year olds which seems to be your entire argument.

 

It is about the statistics that show that over 70 year olds and those in a  high risk groups that if they catch the virus require a higher degree of care than Royal can provide.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Ourusualbeach

[karena1]

2 hours ago, NateUpNorth said:

 

Agree completely.

In the face of people doing exactly that, which I think will be a majority, in order to get commitments for people’s vacation plans they’ll have to do something with final payments/deposits.

I’ll commit 12 months out if I don’t have a large deposit due till 30 days out. Still mentally and financially committed to going also. ( my excursions and packages will be purchased and planned)

I have cruises booked through 4/22 and will continue to do so.  

[johnjen]

Dump that ridiculous "FCC" campaign; refund as soon as possible without the "FCC is better than a refund" jingles.

[TheMastodon]

22 hours ago, Kokomo91165 said:

1.  Share detailed plan of hygiene protocol for cabins, public areas and cruise terminal 

 

2.  Share detailed plan of screening procedures for guest and crew. 
 

3.  Limit crowded lounges to 50% capacity - such as diamond lounge/concierge lounge, schooner bar, theater, studio B.

 

4.  Reduce 200% single supplement to 150% for 2020 sailings 

 

Please add more suggestions. 

 

 

my suggestion - no cruising until this virus is gone.  

 

 

[zekekelso]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

Are pregnant women not a protected class?  I would think discriminating against them would be similar to the other examples you mentioned.

pregnancy is a protected class. Again, it can be legal to discriminate against pregnant women do long as the rule serves a necessary purpose and is the least discriminatory way of accomplishing it. Again, this is under US federal law and I’m just assuming for this post the same applies to cruise ships. The lines can argue that preventing women from going into labor at sea is important enough to justify discrimination. But they couldn’t just ban all women or even all pregnant women as that would not be the least discriminatory way of accomplishing that. 

[John&LaLa]

16 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

read this

https://cmmid.github.io/topics/covid19/severity/diamond_cruise_cfr_estimates.html

 

Age Range	No. of passengers	Symp. cases	Asymp. cases	nCFR	Expected deaths using nCFR	Observed deaths on cruise ship
0 - 9	16	0	1	0.0% (0.0% - 0.9%)	0 (0 - 0)	0
10 - 19	23	2	3	0.2% (0.0% - 1.0%)	0 (0 - 0)	0
20 - 29	347	25	3	0.2% (0.1% - 0.4%)	0.05 (0.02 - 0.10)	0
30 - 39	428	27	7	0.2% (0.1% - 0.4%)	0.06 (0.04 - 0.10)	0
40 - 49	334	19	8	0.4% (0.3% - 0.6%)	0.08 (0.06 - 0.12)	0
50 - 59	398	28	31	1.3% (1.1% - 1.5%)	0.36 (0.31 - 0.43)	0
60 - 69	923	76	101	3.6% (3.2% - 4.0%)	2.74 (2.5 - 3.1)	0
70 - 79	1015	95	139	8.0% (7.2% - 8.9%)	7.6 (6.8 - 8.4)	6
80 - 89	216	29	25	14.8% (13.0% - 16.7%)	4.28 (3.8 - 4.9)	1
Totals	3711	301	318		15.15 (13.5 - 17.1)	7

 

All I get out of this is the need to have that Drs note start at 60 instead of 70😉

[lenquixote66]

20 hours ago, Snit13 said:

I do believe this is discrimination and against the law.  I am so happy you are in perfect health and wish I could say the same for many cruisers.  For many cruisers this is the main thing to look forward to.  

I agree with you 100%.Can you imagine how many age discrimination suits would be filed ?