Do you REALLY think we'll be cruising this year?

[hcat]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

 

I would love a cruise in 2022 but I think the max time you can use credit is 365 days.  My cruise is Dec 2020.

Same for us..looking for a back up nov or dec 2021

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, hcat said:

That's all, I found among other stuff, when I googled about the  NY nursing homes and Covid. I thought it was interesting to the conversation &   mentioned it was from April.. Obvously and sadly,  I expect recent numbers are UP after more disclosures and additions  are made.    ( NY Times info  did not  pop up  on my google search)  Perhaps you can assist with more current info. It is a sad situation!

 

My neighbor  lost her mother two days ago..She was 92 , and  in an excellent facility here in suburban NY.  . She apparently had a fever but no tested diagnosis was made.  She continued to decline...Family was given a visit in  protective garb...They will have a close family only funeral this week.  Even sadder when it hits close to home!

 

 

Look at the CDC site or state public health sites or the daily NY Times or just about anywhere that reports daily numbers.  There are an overwhelming number of COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes and assisted care facilities in NY, NJ, PA, CA, anywhere with major outbreaks.   The deaths of patients. residents and health care workers are staggering.  Incredibly tragic. Many could have been prevented with earlier action IMO.   This is the true crisis in the USA.  I am not ignoring the cases from cruise ships some of which could have also been prevented - but the spotlight is really in the wrong place.  Very small number of deaths and hospitalizations from cruise ships compared to nursing homes.  Not even close.

[tosteve1]

10 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Look at the CDC site or state public health sites or the daily NY Times or just about anywhere that reports daily numbers.  There are an overwhelming number of COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes and assisted care facilities in NY, NJ, PA, CA, anywhere with major outbreaks.   The deaths of patients. residents and health care workers are staggering.  Incredibly tragic. Many could have been prevented with earlier action IMO.   This is the true crisis in the USA.  I am not ignoring the cases from cruise ships some of which could have also been prevented - but the spotlight is really in the wrong place.  Very small number of deaths and hospitalizations from cruise ships compared to nursing homes.  Not even close.

 

Yes. New York data shows > 70% of deaths are those over 65. 80% of those have more than one comorbid condition . We should be emphasizing protecting the vulnerable. 

[zitsky]

59 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

 

Yes. New York data shows > 70% of deaths are those over 65. 80% of those have more than one comorbid condition . We should be emphasizing protecting the vulnerable. 

 

So do you rank everyone and decide who gets the most medical care?

 

Seniors the most?

Children the least?

[hcat]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Look at the CDC site or state public health sites or the daily NY Times or just about anywhere that reports daily numbers.  There are an overwhelming number of COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes and assisted care facilities in NY, NJ, PA, CA, anywhere with major outbreaks.   The deaths of patients. residents and health care workers are staggering.  Incredibly tragic. Many could have been prevented with earlier action IMO.   This is the true crisis in the USA.  I am not ignoring the cases from cruise ships some of which could have also been prevented - but the spotlight is really in the wrong place.  Very small number of deaths and hospitalizations from cruise ships compared to nursing homes.  Not even close.

I watch the NY gov, NYC mayor, and Nassau and Suffolk Co Executive's daily briefings on tv.. and  also try to get updates on  health care worker  and Police Dept cases/ deaths.... All quite depressing but still somewhat hopeful for  the  future, unless you catch it. We actually think we had it in early Feb..no testing back then.

 

Sometimes a local webite  is functional and we check our locality and adjacent ones. We are mostly at home altho dh has returned to his pt job... with lots of precautions. Son in law is NYPD with a toddler and newborn at home, and a niece   is a neonatal health care worker seeing  more pregnancies with  Covid .   very stressful!

 

Zitsky :  Children here are  reported to be presenting with odd infections at local hospitals, they are not sure yet if Covid related. Newborn g-son  has a check up today,  and toddler getting all his next vaccines.  Big push on that locally.

 

We do hope to cruise in 2021.. going to focus on my garden this week..good for mental health!

Edited May 4, 2020 by hcat

[tosteve1]

44 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

So do you rank everyone and decide who gets the most medical care?

 

Seniors the most?

Children the least?

Not about getting medical care. It’s about prevention. Look at death rates based on age and medical risk factors. We know who is most vulnerable. They need to be protected. That should be the priority. 

[Oceangoer2]

49 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

So do you rank everyone and decide who gets the most medical care?

 

Seniors the most?

Children the least?

 

Shouldn't comment...but...isn't that a little snarky??  The point is...seniors, especially in nursing homes AROUND THE WORLD are most vulnerable according to statistics.  Medical care will and should go to where it's needed and hopefully the virus doesn't take down the staff who administers it.

Edited May 4, 2020 by oceangoer2

[zitsky]

7 minutes ago, oceangoer2 said:

 

Shouldn't comment...but...isn't that a little snarky??  The point is...seniors, especially in nursing homes AROUND THE WORLD are most vulnerable according to statistics.  Medical care will and should go to where it's needed and hopefully the virus doesn't take down the staff who administers it.

 

There is nothing snarky about it.  It was a question to see if I am on the same page?

 

Some have pointed out that we have to protect the elderly.  But we can't ignore other groups.  Some thought children were safe.  But we see some cases of children dying from this.

 

Are the elderly dying because they're old or because they're living so close together?

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I am not ignoring the cases from cruise ships some of which could have also been prevented - but the spotlight is really in the wrong place.  Very small number of deaths and hospitalizations from cruise ships compared to nursing homes.

Here in Canada, nursing homes and assisted care facilities have also suffered an overwhelming number of tragic deaths, but possibly unlike the US, this has definitely come under the spotlight and under the scrutiny of provincial and municipal governments. Some investigations have already started and more will follow.

 

 

[Cruise a holic]

On 5/2/2020 at 6:00 PM, NMTraveller said:

 

Nursing homes and assisted living centers that I have been to are not a good example of social distancing.  You can't put 10 pounds in a 1 pound bag.  They are highly condensed living areas.  Not good conditions for a pandemic.  Nursing homes should have every other living area populated during this time.  One in four would be better.  I fail to see social distancing in these homes.  Homes that only have 4 or 5 occupants?  Perhaps...  Homes that have 100 or more are making the news...

 

On 5/2/2020 at 3:49 PM, phoenix_dream said:

I think in the interest of being fair, it is also important to remember that nursing homes, assisted living facilities, and Veterans homes are filled with people who are the most susceptible to catching the virus due to severely decreased immune systems and often multiple underlying conditions, as well as more likely to have a hard time surviving the virus for the very same reason.  Even if excellent procedures and adequate staffing were in place, their numbers would still be significantly higher than the public at large.  I am not defending their handling of it in many cases, nor what I feel is the inadequate way our US health system handles them.  But I'm getting tired of reading politically tuned comments on these boards that only tell part of the story.

Over 60,000 people have died in the usa so far.  I also believe many more will succumb to this horrible virus.  Yes elderly and those with underlying medical conditions will be more vulnerable, but many healthy people in their 30’s and 40’s have died also.  We need a vaccination that is truly effective 

[zitsky]

Just read an article about food (factory) workers sick with Covid-19.  We should be doing more to protect them and our food supply.

[Cruise a holic]

Many people who cruise are over 65. Many people well under 65 who sail, also are morbidly obese, so they may have co morbidity  issues and be vulnerable to covid.  I know letters from physicians are no longer required, but if they were it should apply to all guests

Edited May 4, 2020 by Cruise a holic

[tosteve1]

That’s why I think the impact on cruise lines could be a lot bigger than we hope. Certainly the CDC seems to be coming down hard on sailing from US ports. If the cruise lines want to take”high risk” passengers they may be forced to make arrangements for their medical care, evacuation etc. Not a small undertaking. I hope it doesn’t go that way.

[bEwAbG]

The point of stopping nonessential work & travel is to keep the nursing home situation from happening in the broader community.   As someone above pointed out, the healthcare workers are also being hit hard by this.  So why would anyone want to risk contributing more to what's a known hardship?  Not me, at least until there is a vaccine and viable treatment.  There is still a lot we do not know about the virus.

[tosteve1]

Complete avoidance of all risk is impossible. If you believe that, then the discussion is really about what level of risk is tolerable. For a 25 year old a <0.5% risk of dying may be acceptable. For someone over 75 a >10% risk may not be acceptable.  Not fair, but virus don’t care! 

[latserrof]

2 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

Complete avoidance of all risk is impossible. If you believe that, then the discussion is really about what level of risk is tolerable. For a 25 year old a <0.5% risk of dying may be acceptable. For someone over 75 a >10% risk may not be acceptable.  Not fair, but virus don’t care! 

How about the risk of infecting others? Is that different for a 25-year-old vs. a 75-year-old?

[tosteve1]

Don’t know if that is known yet. Some people appear to be asymptomatic and spread it. There also appear to be super spreaders who start big clusters of cases. It will take a while before this is known. My only point is that complete elimination of risk is impossible. Taking part in any crowded activity will be problematic for a while yet I suspect. Concerts, movies, busy restaurants will be risky for some higher risk groups. Cruises are crowded activities for the most part. Being over 60 myself, I think about my own risk a lot. I had  planned on spending a lot of time on cruises! Not sure what will happen with that now...

[UnorigionalName]

13 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

Don’t know if that is known yet. Some people appear to be asymptomatic and spread it. There also appear to be super spreaders who start big clusters of cases. It will take a while before this is known. My only point is that complete elimination of risk is impossible. Taking part in any crowded activity will be problematic for a while yet I suspect. Concerts, movies, busy restaurants will be risky for some higher risk groups. Cruises are crowded activities for the most part. Being over 60 myself, I think about my own risk a lot. I had  planned on spending a lot of time on cruises! Not sure what will happen with that now...

 

It is possible.  New Zealand at 0 new cases.  Australia on it's way there.  Pretty soon they can restart up their economy in a bubble and can have risk free cruises between only bubbled off places with 0 new cases.

 

Unlike in the US, where in many cases, they cases aren't even going down yet.  Even after like 6+ weeks of quarantine, some places still have more and more new cases every day.  I have lost hope, so many people in the US have no basic respect for their fellow citizens.  I don't think cruising will start up before vaccine.  Look at all the protests now.  People already bored of the quarantine thing.  There's going to be rioting soon if restrictions aren't lifted.  We have killed our economy for basically nothing since enough people aren't respecting the rules and their fellow citizens that spread is still increasing.  The US is going to be a case study in the future of how not to run a pandemic.

Edited May 4, 2020 by UnorigionalName

[yorky]

3 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

It is possible.  New Zealand at 0 new cases.  Australia on it's way there.  Pretty soon they can restart up their economy in a bubble and can have risk free cruises between only bubbled off places with 0 new cases.

 

Unlike in the US, where in many cases, they cases aren't even going down yet.  Even after like 6+ weeks of quarantine, some places still have more and more new cases every day.  I have lost hope, so many people in the US have no basic respect for their fellow citizens.  I don't think cruising will start up before vaccine.  Look at all the protests now.  People already bored of the quarantine thing.  There's going to be rioting soon if restrictions aren't lifted.  We have killed our economy for basically nothing since enough people aren't respecting the rules and their fellow citizens that spread is still increasing.  The US is going to be a case study in the future of how not to run a pandemic.

In the UK I think it’s amazing how the vast majority of people have followed the rules, I think even our government is shocked. Regarding the US the early messages coming out from the very top level were poor from what we saw over here.

[latserrof]

41 minutes ago, yorky said:

Regarding the US the early messages coming out from the very top level were poor from what we saw over here.

Here too. Unfortunately too many of us in the US at all levels have no concept of the common good, social responsibility, and what it takes to maintain a society; it's all about me, me, me, now, now, now.

[zitsky]

11 minutes ago, latserrof said:

Here too. Unfortunately too many of us in the US at all levels have no concept of the common good, social responsibility, and what it takes to maintain a society; it's all about me, me, me, now, now, now.

 

Sure people should be careful.  But can we not be holier than thou?

[Moby Jones]

1 hour ago, yorky said:

In the UK I think it’s amazing how the vast majority of people have followed the rules, I think even our government is shocked. Regarding the US the early messages coming out from the very top level were poor from what we saw over here.

 

I know it's easy to say with hindsight but the UK should have imposed a lockdown sooner and undertaken a lot more testing than it did. But I agree at least people are taking it seriously in the main. 

I suspect things could drag on for some time in the US. Time will tell.... 

 

[yorky]

20 minutes ago, Moby Jones said:

 

I know it's easy to say with hindsight but the UK should have imposed a lockdown sooner and undertaken a lot more testing than it did. But I agree at least people are taking it seriously in the main. 

I suspect things could drag on for some time in the US. Time will tell.... 

 

Absolutely, we were two weeks too late.

[traveline]

On 4/21/2020 at 10:21 AM, MarkWiltonM said:

I have to admit I've been pretty depressed not being able to look forward to my next cruise. I have two scheduled, in Jan. 2021 and Jan. 2022, but I'm not optimistic I'll be able to go on either. I do not believe cruising is likely to be viable for a lot of us for a long time.  As you probably know, even when social distancing measures are slowly rolled back, most epidemiologists believe there will be numerous waves of the virus resurfacing, with new social distancing measures reintroduced as needed.  This is expected to go on until there is a widely available vaccine.  (I read recently that the fastest vaccine developed so far was four years, for mumps.)  My greatest concern, even if I were to learn that I have immunity to the virus, is that if I am on a cruise and someone develops symptoms that suggest COVID-19, we could be stranded at sea just as several ships were recently when denied access to ports to disembark passengers.  At the very least, cruise lines will have to have the ability to test quickly and accurately, and they will have to have arrangements already in place with countries on how to handle disembarkations when there are COVID-19 cases on board. I think it's going to be a long, slow process for cruise lines, with passengers and crew from many different countries on every ship, to work out these arrangements with all the various countries where they have ports of call. And few of us will be willing to sail if a wonderful two-week cruise could possibly turn into a four-week or longer imprisonment with no means of escape. This is completely separate from whatever dangers there may be of contracting the virus on board. I hope I'm wrong!

What happened with the stranded at sea, will not happen again. CDC have written new guide line the ships will agree to if they want to sail in the USA waters. CDC have strict guidelines for the ships. It will take a little time for the ships to regroup. They will be responsible to get everyone off the ship and home by private charter ASAP. There will be a lot of changes.

[Covepointcruiser]

Carnival announced today that they will start cruising on 1 AUG.   I am glad to hear this but I hope they screen passengers.   It’s also not the time to cruise if you have one of the risk factors, including obesity.