What level of infection is acceptable

[mek]

3 hours ago, KsucAts said:

Yeah, the original question confused me as well.  

 

I think we never get to 0 until we get true herd immunity.  That will take some time.  Until we get there, there will always be a risk of people with the virus that go undetected.  

Only 1 in 5 have developed antibodies in Sweden.  They were much more open during the pandemic than any other country and yet have only reached 20%.  It's my understanding that 50-80% of the population needs to be infected to achieve herd immunity.  We are a long way off from that point.

[Billy Baltic]

4 minutes ago, mek said:

Only 1 in 5 have developed antibodies in Sweden.  They were much more open during the pandemic than any other country and yet have only reached 20%.  It's my understanding that 50-80% of the population needs to be infected to achieve herd immunity.  We are a long way off from that point.

No guarantee there is immunity among those that had the virus. Early tests showed levels of antibodies had noticeably declined after a couple of months and may no longer provide protection in as little as 6 months. 

[mek]

Just now, Billy Baltic said:

No guarantee there is immunity among those that had the virus. Early tests showed levels of antibodies had noticeably declined after a couple of months and may no longer provide protection in as little as 6 months. 

Then wishing for a vaccine is pointless because that is basically the same thing.

[grapau27]

4 hours ago, partiamo said:

I do not have a cruise until next April, but I started wondering what level of covid infection would be acceptable and I would still go on a cruise?  For example, by my calculation there are some 300 cruises scheduled for August and September 2020 in the Caribbean.  From 3 days on up.  It seems to me, no matter what protocols are in place, there will be some level of infection on these cruises, just as there is, and will be, some level throughout the US.  So, what level would people find acceptable and still go on the cruise?

 

1.  Would it be one case on any cruise?

2.  Would it be only X% of all cruises, even if but one case?

3.  Would it be a number not to exceed X% on any and all ships?

4.  Or something else I have not considered?

 

I would love to hear your comments.

Zero for me.

If they test everyone when boarding for temperature and anyone coughing would be a good start.

All passengers temperature tested when boarding at a port of call.

Anyone showing symptoms during the cruise needs to be tested immediately FOC to ensure compliance.

Anyone testing positive the whole cabin to be isolated for 7 days.

[bucfan2]

With all this medical expertise available on CC, won't it be interesting to see how many medical schools survive?

Edited June 2, 2020 by bucfan2

[Billy Baltic]

3 minutes ago, mek said:

Then wishing for a vaccine is pointless because that is basically the same thing.

True although it would allow for vaccination to cover a ‘season’ of increased risk, similar to the current flu vaccine. 

[ONECRUISER]

11 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Zero for me.

If they test everyone when boarding for temperature and anyone coughing would be a good start.

All passengers temperature tested when boarding at a port of call.

Anyone showing symptoms during the cruise needs to be tested immediately FOC to ensure compliance.

Anyone testing positive the whole cabin to be isolated for 7 days.

I get a cough while on board just to be safe Quarantine me in my Aft/Corner Balcony. Free room service, Internet, think minimum of 28 nites just to be sure... All joking aside if not planned yet they should have CV Test available on all Cruises

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 minute ago, bucfan2 said:

With all this medical expertise available on CC, won't it be interesting to see if any medical colleges survive?

I'm not a doctor, but I play one on Cruise Critic....lol.  You are so right!!

[MommaBear55]

16 minutes ago, mek said:

Then wishing for a vaccine is pointless because that is basically the same thing.

Perhaps it would be an annual vaccine, much in the same way the flu vaccine is. (Yes, I am aware the flu vaccine "mix" is different each year)

[ONECRUISER]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

Here's the link to the CDC site that lists co-morbidities in case anyone is interested.  Very few 0-24 year olds died just of the virus itself - from the chart it looks like 114 total. 

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Conditions-contributing-to-deaths-involving-corona/hk9y-quqm/data

 

Thank you. On CDC site and others but first time found info/breakdowns like this. Been hard to find similar info

[SeaHunt]

 I thought this was an interesting chart for February - May:

 

Heart disease and cancer, typically the two leading causes of death in the United States, killed on average around 200,000 people between February and May in recent years. Despite that, there have been several weeks over the last four months where COVID-19 surpassed those and was the most common cause of death in the country.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-19-compared-to-other-common-us-causes-of-death-2020-5

 

 

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, grapau27 said:

Zero for me.

If they test everyone when boarding for temperature and anyone coughing would be a good start.

All passengers temperature tested when boarding at a port of call.

Anyone showing symptoms during the cruise needs to be tested immediately FOC to ensure compliance.

Anyone testing positive the whole cabin to be isolated for 7 days.

What do you do with someone that has a high temperature boarding at a port of call?  

[beerman2]

12 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

What do you do with someone that has a high temperature boarding at a port of call?  

Quarantine for rest of the cruise!

Edited June 2, 2020 by beerman2

[babydrum]

2 hours ago, d9704011 said:

Not exactly..... here is an excerpt from the CDC website:

 

• Quarantine separates and restricts the movement of people who were exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become sick.

You're right.  I didn't really think about the exposure part of it.  

[Baron Barracuda]

4 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

Uh no... Javitts center was largely unused and the hospital ship that sailed into the harbor left with it hardly being touched.  The capacity to take everyone who has needed hospitalization and intubation was never challenged.  In Sweden it is a completely different story. Government healthcare has killed people in Sweden.  Their method to attack the virus could have had a different outcome had they had the ability to be as flexible with their healthcare delivery as the US has.

You have no idea how dire the NYC situation was.  Javitts center and USS Comfort were only used for Manhattan cases.  Manhattan represents less than 20% of NYC population and hospital ship was intended for non-covid patients only.  For a time hospitals in Brooklyn and Queens were totally overwhelmed.  Elmhurst hospital may have been the worst.  Lots of reporting on what they went through.  Personally saw the freezer trucks loaded with dead lined up behind Lutheran hospital at Brooklyn army terminal.   Dear MIL passed away on 3/27 (age 102 - non covid).  Director at small neighborhood funeral home in Brooklyn told me he was scheduling services for 10 other people who died same day plus 25  more from that weekend.  Only 10 people allowed in funeral parlor and at cemetery and church wasn't allowed to send a priest to say prayers.  Fortunately curve peaked but for a time ER's were turning away symptomatic not experiencing serious breathing issues.  Little to no testing available even for symptomatic.     

[luckyinpa]

7 hours ago, JT1962 said:

Our concern is more about how it will be handled onboard rather than the number of cases. If they still quarantine everyone on the ship for 2 weeks or more if there is one positive case onboard, then we will not cruise again until Covid-19 is no longer an issue or they no longer quarantine the entire ship. We aren’t as worried about getting the virus as we are being stranded on the ship away from home, work, etc. because someone else tested positive.

 

i dont believe they will ever keep people on 14 days anymore. it would be a cascading problem that literally would never end. they wont start up again knowing they will have to keep people possibly 14 days. did anyone even figure out the money lost from keeping people on board 14 days without them paying for it? lack of revenue etc

[luckyinpa]

4 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

It's in the last paragraph:

If it is determined by the onboard doctor that there is a confirmed or suspected case of COVID-19 disease onboard, an outbreak management plan will be activated. The suspected case will be immediately instructed to wear a medical mask, follow cough etiquette, and practice hand hygiene; the suspected case will be isolated in a predefined isolation cabin with the door closed. Infection control measures will be applied in accordance with WHO guidance. The disembarkation and transfer of the suspected case to an onshore healthcare facility for further assessment and laboratory testing will be arranged as soon as possible in cooperation with the health authorities at the port.

 

i still havent even seen speculation who pay for all the stuff that happens when someone leaves  a ship. with no insurance paying this stuff, i doubt most people can suck up a high foreign medical bill/plane/hotel/hospital etc etc.  its a very real fear as evidenced by them kicking the person off next port. also you lost the rest of your cruise fare, not very fair. 

[luckyinpa]

4 hours ago, grapau27 said:

Zero for me.

If they test everyone when boarding for temperature and anyone coughing would be a good start.

All passengers temperature tested when boarding at a port of call.

Anyone showing symptoms during the cruise needs to be tested immediately FOC to ensure compliance.

Anyone testing positive the whole cabin to be isolated for 7 days.

 

how do you isolate on 7 day or less cruises? and how does the actual passenger testing work. do i nark on the guy next to me in the buffet that coughed? can you imagine the crew being put in a position to nark on people , heck if i have whiff of pepper thats too strong i sneeze cough and get watery eyes. probably no fever but the sheer possiblity of losing time on a cruise to something innocent is scary. so i need to know the implementation of such a reporting system. you can also have vengeful people reporting on each other. heck i love trying new foods, even spicy ones, they can cause me to cough and get very red/hot face and sound like death . but i love new foods. 

 

ships admittedly dont even have enough security on board. you see news reports of a fight and only X number of people show up to help. cannot even imagine trying to get a  new staff soley for the purpose of monitoring guest health. 

[NJ&Ozzie]

10 minutes ago, luckyinpa said:

 

i still havent even seen speculation who pay for all the stuff that happens when someone leaves  a ship. with no insurance paying this stuff, i doubt most people can suck up a high foreign medical bill/plane/hotel/hospital etc etc.  its a very real fear as evidenced by them kicking the person off next port. also you lost the rest of your cruise fare, not very fair. 

Now this is scary stuff.  Insurance???

NJ 

[SeaHunt]

Bringing this over - about a fishing trawler with many COVID positive crew.

100% of the crew had been tested before boarding 😞

 

SEATTLE, WA – (May 31, 2020) American Seafoods Company previously reported that a crew member from the American Dynasty tested positive for COVID-19. As a result, the company decided to test the entire crew and on May 30 an additional 85 crew members were confirmed positive. Results are pending for nine outstanding tests. “The health and safety of our crew, employees, and the communities where we operate is always the top priority for us,” said American Seafoods CEO Mikel Durham. According to Durham, 100% of crew members were screened and tested for COVID-19 antibodies and viral infection before they boarded the vessel. Pre-season tests were conducted through the University of Washington. Only those who tested negative for the virus were cleared to board the vessel.

 

https://www.americanseafoods.com/media/1690/release-5312020-american-seafoods-reports-additional-positive-covid-19-tests-from-crew-members-on-the-american-dynasty.pdf

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/american-seafoods-factory-trawler-returns-to-seattle-after-85-crew-members-test-positive-for-covid-19/

[A&L_Ont]

7 hours ago, Biker19 said:

People are not allowed to die on Sundays.

The test results here drop on the weekend as well, and spike on Mondays. Unfortunately people still die and test positive, just not as many. 

[Dennis#1]

No cruising for us until a fully tested COVID-19 vaccine is available for 300 million Americans.

[ONECRUISER]

3 hours ago, Dennis#1 said:

No cruising for us until a fully tested COVID-19 vaccine is available for 300 million Americans.

Sad to think but possible may never have a Vaccine, or one that's even that effective. Let alone try and get all American's Vaccinated. Poll couple weeks ago only half said they'd even take the new shot.

[grapau27]

7 hours ago, luckyinpa said:

 

how do you isolate on 7 day or less cruises? and how does the actual passenger testing work. do i nark on the guy next to me in the buffet that coughed? can you imagine the crew being put in a position to nark on people , heck if i have whiff of pepper thats too strong i sneeze cough and get watery eyes. probably no fever but the sheer possiblity of losing time on a cruise to something innocent is scary. so i need to know the implementation of such a reporting system. you can also have vengeful people reporting on each other. heck i love trying new foods, even spicy ones, they can cause me to cough and get very red/hot face and sound like death . but i love new foods. 

 

ships admittedly dont even have enough security on board. you see news reports of a fight and only X number of people show up to help. cannot even imagine trying to get a  new staff soley for the purpose of monitoring guest health. 

If cruiselines want to cruise again these are problems they will have to overcome.

Anyone coughing or with a high temperature should be tested ASAP by a doctor or nurse and kept isolated for a couple of days and tested each day and depending on the results will either be passed negative or if positive disembarked at the next port and took to hospital.

Anyone with norovirus is isolated for a few days so to isolate with suspected coronavirus for a couple of days is not something new.

[Beeline Cruiser]

5 hours ago, Dennis#1 said:

No cruising for us until a fully tested COVID-19 vaccine is available for 300 million Americans.

 

Right? I almost didn’t but booked Vision for next year and am so glad i did!! Maybe you can splurge on something amazing when they do.