Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[shiphound]

On 2/19/2021 at 12:46 PM, whirlybird3 said:

Wow!  That is a lot of shots.  We are having difficulty in organizing and giving out two shots, I can't imagine organizing four shots to millions of people. 

I took allergy shots for years - one every couple of weeks.  Not a big deal.

 

 

[TeeRick]

So I was thinking of posting this on the Penguin, Horse, Polar Bear joke thread.  It is a bit of humor after all.  But also a sad commentary on what some in the population believe about COVID and vaccines.

 

https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/mar/15/15-our-wackiest-covid-19-fact-checks/

[TeeRick]

First Day of Spring today!  Can cruising be far behind?

 

Credit for image:

https://greentwp.org/event/first-day-of-spring/?instance_id=879

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by TeeRick

[mimbecky]

33 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

This is two parts. First is saying pay attention to the travel warnings. Secondly, if the COVID threshold is met, cruise is over.  

 

I wonder what this will do for trip insurance rates 😟

Or if there will be some sort of disclaimer.

 

[Ken the cruiser]

I know this interview has been posted in other places, but I really like the last line the reporter noted regarding the CDC's Conditional Sail Order with potential changes being released "very soon". Now, what exactly "very soon" means, we'll just have to wait and see. But for us we're hoping before our final payment is due for our July Caribbean cruises on the Edge.

 

Cruises open back up: 2 Royal Caribbean lines resume in June 2021; COVID vaccine required for guests, Celebrity CEO says - ABC13 Houston

Edited March 20, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[4774Papa]

COVID-19 Vaccinations in the United States

Overall US COVID-19 Vaccine | Deliveries and Administration; Maps, charts, and data provided by CDC, updated daily by 8 pm ET†
Represents all vaccine partners including jurisdictional partner clinics, retail pharmacies, long-term care facilities, Federal Emergency Management Agency and Health Resources and Services Administration partner sites, and federal entity facilities.

Total Vaccine Doses

Delivered

156,734,555

Administered

121,441,497

 

For people over 65 that is 68% of the population with at least one dose.  Moving right along.

[cantstopingcruising]

On 3/18/2021 at 1:53 PM, Ken the cruiser said:

I was wondering what the new administration was going to do with the excess vaccines we've purchased, especially if/when the FDA approves the AstraZeneca EUA. Glad they'll be going to our neighbors, Canada and Mexico.

 

Biden to send surplus AstraZeneca vaccine doses to Mexico, Canada | TheHill

And I thought you were our friendly neighbours to the south.

[nocl]

The EMA has now saying that the AZ  vaccine may be associated with very rare cases of blood clots associated with thrombocytopenia, i.e. low levels of blood platelets

 

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-benefits-still-outweigh-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots

 

Some work has been completed on the mechanism that triggers the behavior

 

https://www.dw.com/en/astrazeneca-german-team-discovers-thrombosis-trigger/a-56925550

 

The investigation showed how the vaccine caused rare thrombosis in the brain in a small number of patients.

 

Clearly the risk is low and the benefits out weigh the risks when no other vaccine is available.  Will make it interesting to see if the FDA approves after the US trial is complete with the US apparently close to having an adequate supply of the 3 approved vaccines.

 

Will be interesting to see the actual paper when it is published on the cause.

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, nocl said:

The EMA has now saying that the AZ  vaccine may be associated with very rare cases of blood clots associated with thrombocytopenia, i.e. low levels of blood platelets

 

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-benefits-still-outweigh-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots

 

Some work has been completed on the mechanism that triggers the behavior

 

https://www.dw.com/en/astrazeneca-german-team-discovers-thrombosis-trigger/a-56925550

 

The investigation showed how the vaccine caused rare thrombosis in the brain in a small number of patients.

 

Clearly the risk is low and the benefits out weigh the risks when no other vaccine is available.  Will make it interesting to see if the FDA approves after the US trial is complete with the US apparently close to having an adequate supply of the 3 approved vaccines.

 

Will be interesting to see the actual paper when it is published on the cause.

Thanks for posting this.  Here is the statement from the EMEA (first link above).

"These are rare cases – around 20 million people in the UK and EEA had received the [AZ] vaccine as of March 16 and EMA had reviewed only 7 cases of blood clots in multiple blood vessels (disseminated intravascular coagulation, DIC) and 18 cases of CVST. A causal link with the vaccine is not proven, but is possible and deserves further analysis."

It also is stated that these very rare cases are mostly in women under the age of 55.  

 

The second link talks about knowing the cause of the rare event but does not actually share the cause and mechanism.  Am I missing something?

 

If it is ultimately proven to be a causal link to the vaccine, it is interesting to ask why it is this vaccine?  Is it after one or two doses?  It is a very rare event so it will be quite some time to study this.   Could it be related to the AZ vaccine being a Chimpanzee AD vector approach vs the others (J&J, Sputnik, etc) being human AD vector?

[TeeRick]

On 3/19/2021 at 5:31 PM, cangelmd said:

Something that very much concerns me is that the confirmed hospitalizations are flattening out even more than the cases. 
JHU is doing great work, but I don’t think their data is “granular” enough to follow on less than a month to month basis, especially now that numbers are reduced and you can see a doubling of cases in one day just because it’s midweek, and the reporting is more real time - the numbers go right back down by half the next day.

 

cangelmd,

Can you comment on this article saying that only 52% of all frontline health care workers in the US have chosen to get the COVID vaccine?  That seems very strange and questionable to me.  And both sad and scary if true.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/health-care-workers-covid-19-vaccine-half-not-vaccinated/

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

cangelmd,

Can you comment on this article saying that only 52% of all frontline health care workers in the US have chosen to get the COVID vaccine?  That seems very strange and questionable to me.  And both sad and scary if true.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/health-care-workers-covid-19-vaccine-half-not-vaccinated/

Given the large number of posts providing a contrary opinion, this paragraph from the article took me by surprise:

 

Employers across the U.S. have the legal right to mandate the vaccine as a condition of employment, however most are opting to offer bonuses and other incentives to employees who get jabbed, rather than enforce compliance. 

[mayleeman]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

 ...most are opting to offer bonuses and other incentives to employees who get jabbed, rather than enforce compliance. 

 

Amazing that a significantly better opportunity to grow old,  and retire, without long-term unpredictable health problems, isn't as important to some as a couple days off or a few hundred bucks!

[Fouremco]

22 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

 

Amazing that a significantly better opportunity to grow old,  and retire, without long-term unpredictable health problems, isn't as important to some as a couple days off or a few hundred bucks!

A full year into the pandemic and with more readily available information at our fingertips than at any other point in history, yet there are still those who just don't seem to understand. Amazing, and very sad.

[nocl]

5 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Thanks for posting this.  Here is the statement from the EMEA (first link above).

"These are rare cases – around 20 million people in the UK and EEA had received the [AZ] vaccine as of March 16 and EMA had reviewed only 7 cases of blood clots in multiple blood vessels (disseminated intravascular coagulation, DIC) and 18 cases of CVST. A causal link with the vaccine is not proven, but is possible and deserves further analysis."

It also is stated that these very rare cases are mostly in women under the age of 55.  

 

The second link talks about knowing the cause of the rare event but does not actually share the cause and mechanism.  Am I missing something?

 

If it is ultimately proven to be a causal link to the vaccine, it is interesting to ask why it is this vaccine?  Is it after one or two doses?  It is a very rare event so it will be quite some time to study this.   Could it be related to the AZ vaccine being a Chimpanzee AD vector approach vs the others (J&J, Sputnik, etc) being human AD vector?

The formal paper will be quite interesting whenever it is released.

[cangelmd]

9 hours ago, TeeRick said:

cangelmd,

Can you comment on this article saying that only 52% of all frontline health care workers in the US have chosen to get the COVID vaccine?  That seems very strange and questionable to me.  And both sad and scary if true.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/health-care-workers-covid-19-vaccine-half-not-vaccinated/

The answer is in the “fine print”. 80% of employed HCW, only 20% of home health aides.

Im not sure how home health aides are paid, I wouldn’t be surprised if the degreed persons, actual nurses, are contractors and therefore self employed. There are a lot of home health agencies. Another chunk of HCW have had Covid within 90 days. I’m not sure that is still a contraindication, but when the first wave of vaccine went through back in December, they asked people to wait until 90 days had passed.

The numbers on hospitals and MD offices are high, but not 100%. Nursing homes slightly lower and home health very low. 
The uptake in less well educated persons is lower, regardless of skin color or political persuasion. There are other barriers, vaccination was very easy for us, they came to us. Home health personnel would have to take the time out of their time/resources to get vaccinated - their situation is much more like the general public. I don’t know if they are required to get flu shots. Everyone in the hospital, including volunteers is required to have a complete suite of vaccinations, or have a very good reason no to.

Covid may change some of this when a vaccine gets regular approval.

[hcat]

8 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Given the large number of posts providing a contrary opinion, this paragraph from the article took me by surprise:

 

Employers across the U.S. have the legal right to mandate the vaccine as a condition of employment, however most are opting to offer bonuses and other incentives to employees who get jabbed, rather than enforce compliance. 

Courts may ultimately decide these issues,

 

Employers have been requiring quarantine for periods longer than reqired by gov

Regulations..not sure if there have been  ct challenges...Around here I   think the employee  complies or  sometimes the employer relaxes rule if tests are neg.

 

Just saw on TV that Israel has a  case that upheld such a  vaccine req in a school setting...not sure if  there's an appeal???  Generally most teachers want the vaccine....always exceptions for health or other reasons,

Edited March 22, 2021 by hcat

[wrk2cruise]

In NC and MIL is in an assisted living facility.   They had 4 clinics for Moderna vaccine each 4 weeks apart.  The first one they only had about 30% of care givers participate (100% of residents and salaried staff).  By the end they got to over 60%.  Many were willing after watching their coworkers experience.  The facility used employee testimonials and things like raffling off an iPad to encourage participation.

[TeeRick]

Here is the latest AZ/Oxford vaccine news from the USA Phase 3 clinical study.  Overall 79% efficacy after 2 shots (or jabs in British terms).   Data to be published.  EMA application to be submitted.  

 

 Remember that the J&J one shot vaccine had 72% efficacy in the US and got its EMA approved.  The AZ/Oxford vaccine was reported to have complete protection against hospitalizations and deaths.  Just like the other three vaccines with approved EMA's in the US.  There was no evidence of the rare adverse event (thrombocytopenia) or increased blood clots in the US trial.  Or any other safety issues.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/astrazeneca-us-trial-data-shows-vaccine-79-effective-76600407

[TeeRick]

12 hours ago, cangelmd said:

The answer is in the “fine print”. 80% of employed HCW, only 20% of home health aides.

Im not sure how home health aides are paid, I wouldn’t be surprised if the degreed persons, actual nurses, are contractors and therefore self employed. There are a lot of home health agencies. Another chunk of HCW have had Covid within 90 days. I’m not sure that is still a contraindication, but when the first wave of vaccine went through back in December, they asked people to wait until 90 days had passed.

The numbers on hospitals and MD offices are high, but not 100%. Nursing homes slightly lower and home health very low. 
The uptake in less well educated persons is lower, regardless of skin color or political persuasion. There are other barriers, vaccination was very easy for us, they came to us. Home health personnel would have to take the time out of their time/resources to get vaccinated - their situation is much more like the general public. I don’t know if they are required to get flu shots. Everyone in the hospital, including volunteers is required to have a complete suite of vaccinations, or have a very good reason no to.

Covid may change some of this when a vaccine gets regular approval.

Interesting thank you!  I knew you would have some insight into this.

[TeeRick]

Here is the press release today from AstraZeneca.

 

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/astrazeneca-us-vaccine-trial-met-primary-endpoint.html

 

And here is the press release from Oxford.

https://www.research.ox.ac.uk/Article/2021-03-22-usa-data-show-oxford-vaccine-effective

[Ken the cruiser]

It's definitely been a long road for AstraZeneca, but they finally have the EUA goal line in sight. Hopefully, the FDA review process will give their vaccine a thumbs up once their data is submitted, so we'll have even more vaccines available to put COVID squarely in the rearview mirror.

[TeeRick]

26 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

It's definitely been a long road for AstraZeneca, but they finally have the EUA goal line in sight. Hopefully, the FDA review process will give their vaccine a thumbs up once their data is submitted, so we'll have even more vaccines available to put COVID squarely in the rearview mirror.

This efficacy and safety data for the AZ/Oxford vaccine is extremely good news for the entire worldwide COVID vaccine effort.  I believe that is the most important outcome here. 

[Crazy planning mom]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

This efficacy and safety data for the AZ/Oxford vaccine is extremely good news for the entire worldwide COVID vaccine effort.  I believe that is the most important outcome here. 

Yes, will the US donate or sell to other countries?

[cangelmd]

On 3/21/2021 at 1:04 PM, mayleeman said:

 

Amazing that a significantly better opportunity to grow old,  and retire, without long-term unpredictable health problems, isn't as important to some as a couple days off or a few hundred bucks!

Well, if you are worried about feeding your kids or paying down your credit cards, or buying gas or feeding whatever addiction you have, then yeah, that couple of hundred dollars becomes important. And if you have no paid time off and those kids get sick, then the days off get precious too

[LGW59]

Just now, cangelmd said:

Well, if you are worried about feeding your kids or paying down your credit cards, or buying gas or feeding whatever addiction you have, then yeah, that couple of hundred dollars becomes important. And if you have no paid time off and those kids get sick, then the days off get precious too

With all due respect, if one is worried about feeding their kids or paying off credit card debt, why would they be looking to book a cruise?