Mandatory COVID Testing

[Lovincruisin1321]

Is there a Professional Doctor on this thread that can answer my question about this article?

 

Question:  As the virus continues and spreads, won't the majority test "A-Symptomatic"?  If you are A-Symptomatic, you are not physically sick, but can spread it to others that are high risk that can get sick.  

If this is true, then when boarding 200 passengers, and if 80% of them test "A-Symptomatic", then they will not be allowed to board?  Eventually, there will be more A-Symptomatic than COVID Positive with physical symptoms.

 

How will this work?   Won't cruise lines be "Cutting off their nose to spite their face"?

 

If you do not have an MD after your name, please do not respond.

 

CLIA Cruise Line Members to Mandate Pre-Boarding Testing For All Passengers

"(12:25 p.m. EDT) -- Members of the Cruise Lines International Association have agreed to pre-boarding COVID-19 testing on all passengers and crew, regardless of geography.

 

CLIA's global CEO Kelly Craighead made the announcement today at the world's biggest cruise conference, Seatrade, as "as a core element of initial resumption globally."

 

"I'm pleased to announce that effective today all CLIA Ocean cruise line members worldwide have agreed to conduct 100 percent testing of passengers and crew on all ships with a capacity to carry 250 or more persons -- with a negative test required for any embarkation," said Kelly Craighead, CLIA Global CEO."

[time4u2go]

23 minutes ago, Lovincruisin1321 said:

If you do not have an MD after your name, please do not respond.

Lol good luck with that!

[Ourusualbeach]

@Ocean Boy

[not-enough-cruising]

You can not test “asymptomatic” you either test positive (adequate viral load in your system) or negative (inadequate viral load in your system) This is assuming a properly functioning test kit has been used. 

 

Asymptomatic is defined as “a positive test and no physical symptoms”

 

The outcome of this testing will only be, “at the time of test administration-cruiser X, did or did not have a detectable viral response AT THAT MOMENT”

Edited October 7, 2020 by not-enough-cruising

[Ocean Boy]

It isn't going to keep covid off the ships and that is about all that I am going to say about it.

[not-enough-cruising]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

It isn't going to keep covid off the ships and that is about all that I am going to say about it.

Concur

[time4u2go]

38 minutes ago, Lovincruisin1321 said:

Question:  As the virus continues and spreads, won't the majority test "A-Symptomatic"?  If you are A-Symptomatic, you are not physically sick, but can spread it to others that are high risk that can get sick.  

If this is true, then when boarding 200 passengers, and if 80% of them test "A-Symptomatic", then they will not be allowed to board?  Eventually, there will be more A-Symptomatic than COVID Positive with physical symptoms.

The premise of what you are asking doesn't make any sense.  It sounds like you are thinking that once somebody tests positive with no symptoms (is asymptomatic), they remain that way forever.  That's not true.  They eventually no longer have the virus, just like someone that is symptomatic.

 

Also as pointed out earlier, people don't test "A-Symptomatic" (sic).  They test positive or negative.

 

Sorry, I'm not an MD, although I played one once in a grade school play! 😁

Edited October 7, 2020 by time4u2go

[molly361]

Molly361 MD says it's a no win situation😇

[PelicanBill]

There are four possible outcomes! And look how sure you can be with each result. What's answer? test twice when you get a positive.  But when you get a negative we take the chance and assume you don't have it.

 

Symptomatic + positive test = Covid (likey), or false positive (happens too much)

Symptomatic + negative test = false negative OR you have a cold or the flu or something else

Asymptomatic + postive test = Covid or false positive (either is possible, as viral load is still building for test to be positive)

Asymptomatic + negative test = false negative (unlikely but still happens), or else not sick, you win a cruise

 

 

[Lovincruisin1321]

3 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

The premise of what you are asking doesn't make any sense.  It sounds like you are thinking that once somebody tests positive with no symptoms (is asymptomatic), they remain that way forever.  That's not true.  They eventually no longer have the virus, just like someone that is symptomatic.

 

Also as pointed out earlier, people don't test "A-Symptomatic" (sic).  They test positive or negative.

No, I do not think they remain asymptomatic forever.  In fact we are dealing with one strain but there may be several out there.  EVENTUALLY, this virus and the major strain - the killer - will die out as people contract the virus and survive or die.  I should have been more detailed.  What I am asking is that testing folks for COVID is not 100% for the safety of crew and passengers.

 

If you are asymptomatic, you are not sick BUT you 1.) are a carrier, which could get a high risk person sick; or 2.) be in the incubation (10 days after contracting virus) and end up positive while on the ship.

 

This mandatory testing is just to pacify the CDC and make people think they are safe, when in fact......the risk is still there.

[MommaBear55]

7 minutes ago, Lovincruisin1321 said:

 

This mandatory testing is just to pacify the CDC and make people think they are safe, when in fact......the risk is still there.

You are right, not 100%, but it does decrease the number of people on board who will be carrying the virus. Think of it like norovirus: there's always going to be a few passengers on board who have norovirus, but it's unlikely to cause an outbreak. Get 200 people who bring norovirus onboard, we're all In trouble. Yes, the difference is that Covid is droplet, but this is simply to make it more relatable. 

(Nurse Practitioner, not an MD or DO)

Edited October 7, 2020 by MommaBear55
Clarification

[time4u2go]

18 minutes ago, Lovincruisin1321 said:

No, I do not think they remain asymptomatic forever.  In fact we are dealing with one strain but there may be several out there.  EVENTUALLY, this virus and the major strain - the killer - will die out as people contract the virus and survive or die.  I should have been more detailed.  What I am asking is that testing folks for COVID is not 100% for the safety of crew and passengers.

 

If you are asymptomatic, you are not sick BUT you 1.) are a carrier, which could get a high risk person sick; or 2.) be in the incubation (10 days after contracting virus) and end up positive while on the ship.

 

This mandatory testing is just to pacify the CDC and make people think they are safe, when in fact......the risk is still there.

What I've highlighted above starts out with "what I am asking is", but really isn't a question.  What is your specific question?

Edited October 7, 2020 by time4u2go

[Ocean Boy]

27 minutes ago, Lovincruisin1321 said:

 

This mandatory testing is just to pacify the CDC and make people think they are safe, when in fact......the risk is still there.

For the most part that is true. This is especially so because getting to a cruise involves risky activity. Many of the people will have transited through at least two airports and spent several hours in a plane having come in contact with hundreds of people. Who knows what activities they were doing for the few days before leaving home from the trip. There is a reason why quarantines are set at 14 days. That number was not drawn out of a hat. There is plenty of opportunity for infected, asymptomatic, negative testing people to bring this virus aboard the ship. And then there is the other half of the ship population.... the crew.

 

And the fact is, like it or not, a cruise ship is the typical risky environment that we have all been advised to avoid for months now. And though they may step up their cleaning procedures, the major issue with an airborne virus is people beathing, talking, and a cough or sneeze here and there. And even if a ship is booked at 50% capacity that just makes a risky environment a little less bad, it doesn't make it good. Anyone who has been on a cruise knows that.

[grapau27]

47 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

@Ocean Boy

+1.

[Tapi]

Let’s not make this more complicated than it has to be. 

 

- Tests don’t protect 100%
- Masks don’t protect 100%
- Distancing doesn’t protect 100%
- Heightened sanitation doesn’t protect 100%
 

BUT 

 

Tests + Masks + Distancing + heightened sanitation gets us as close to that coveted 100% as it’s possible at this time, and that’s why the cruise lines will be doing all of these when they restart.
 

We can sit here and analyze, protest, tear apart, and play online doctor or scientist all we want concerning these protocols. It won’t make a difference. Either we abide by them if we want to go cruising, or we don’t and stay home. 

[GA Dave]

23 minutes ago, Lovincruisin1321 said:

No, I do not think they remain asymptomatic forever.  In fact we are dealing with one strain but there may be several out there.  EVENTUALLY, this virus and the major strain - the killer - will die out as people contract the virus and survive or die.  I should have been more detailed.  What I am asking is that testing folks for COVID is not 100% for the safety of crew and passengers.

 

If you are asymptomatic, you are not sick BUT you 1.) are a carrier, which could get a high risk person sick; or 2.) be in the incubation (10 days after contracting virus) and end up positive while on the ship.

 

This mandatory testing is just to pacify the CDC and make people think they are safe, when in fact......the risk is still there.

The sentence I highlighted above can be said of almost any human endeavor.  Getting into an automobile carries a pretty high risk with it no matter how good a driver you are, only because there are so many other drivers that may not be good.  Going out to eat at any restaurant carries risk of food poisoning, crossing a busy street carries risk of being run over.  We mitigate risks via things like the testing they are trying.  Is it 100%?  No, but nothing in life is.

[Hoopster95]

50 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You can not test “asymptomatic” ... did or did not have a detectable viral response AT THAT MOMENT”

 

43 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

It isn't going to keep covid off the ships

 

42 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Concur

 

28 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

There are four possible outcomes!

 

2 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

+1.

 

 

What the *?!? Multiple postings and agreements on CC using common sense and true facts.

How is this possible? 😝

[flyguyjake]

100% testing won't keep covid-19 off the ships period. This is what failed at the White House. Testing will catch a positive person (hopefully not a false positive) with a detectable viral load and prevent that person from boarding. Testing will not catch someone who has contracted the virus but hasn't built up enough viral load yet for the test to detect. 100% guaranteed people can and will board the ship already infected. Temperature checks & Rapid testing won't prevent that from happening.

 

Testing is a failed premise for prevention since a person is most contagious 48 hours prior to testing positive. This is why so many people are actively sharing this virus. This is the sole reason it's such a different beast. As others have said, you need a combination of all (3) things to get a close as possible to prevent the spread: 1) Wearing a mask properly. 2) Social Distancing. 3) Washing hands for 20 seconds. I would add not touching your eyes, nose and mouth when outside of your home would also be best, but very hard to not do this subconsciously.

[Ocean Boy]

17 minutes ago, Tapi said:

Let’s not make this more complicated than it has to be. 

 

- Tests don’t protect 100%
- Masks don’t protect 100%
- Distancing doesn’t protect 100%
- Heightened sanitation doesn’t protect 100%
 

BUT 

 

Tests + Masks + Distancing + heightened sanitation gets us as close to that coveted 100% as it’s possible at this time, and that’s why the cruise lines will be doing all of these when they restart.
 

We can sit here and analyze, protest, tear apart, and play online doctor or scientist all we want concerning these protocols. It won’t make a difference. Either we abide by them if we want to go cruising, or we don’t and stay home. 

No one is arguing abiding by the rules or not. The whole point of the thread seemed to be to discuss the efficacy of testing keeping the virus off the ship. And, of course, if it was highly effective then the need for masks and distancing would be rather moot.

[Hoopster95]

3 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

Testing will not catch someone who has contracted the virus but hasn't built up enough viral load yet for the test to detect. 100% guaranteed people can and will board the ship already infected. Temperature checks & Rapid testing won't prevent that from happening.

 

WHAT?!?!?!?!

More common sense????

I'm in the Twilight Zone

[bouhunter]

48 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

There are four possible outcomes! And look how sure you can be with each result. What's answer? test twice when you get a positive.  But when you get a negative we take the chance and assume you don't have it.

 

Symptomatic + positive test = Covid (likey), or false positive (happens too much)

Symptomatic + negative test = false negative OR you have a cold or the flu or something else

Asymptomatic + postive test = Covid or false positive (either is possible, as viral load is still building for test to be positive)

Asymptomatic + negative test = false negative (unlikely but still happens), or else not sick, you win a cruise

 

 

Simple translation:  Either Positive or Negative.  Nothing else will matter to the cruise line, regardless of the above convoluted unnecessary scenarios. 

[flyguyjake]

So let's play out this discussion further. A person has boarded the ship infected since the temperature check was normal & their rapid test was negative. In a perfect world everyone on the ship wore masks and maintained social distancing (no spread). Next day or two patient zero develops symptoms. At this point we hope they would report to the medical unit, but what if they don't?

 

So let's say they did report to the medical unit and there they have tested positive. Now they should be immediately quarantined. In there cabin? In the medical unit? Are they immediately medevaced off ship? Are they removed at the next port?

 

Let's say they have mild symptoms and are scared to report their illness (which happens all the time) because they don't want to get stuck in a foreign port. Let's say this persons mask was loosely fitted so droplets can be released in the air. Let's say they don't properly wash their hands and they've touched commonly used surfaces. In this probable circumstance the virus could spread on board to others.

 

If they are quarantined in their cabin and are not wearing a mask can they spread the virus through the air-conditioning system to nearby cabins?

 

Upon a person testing positive on board, is everyone quarantined to their cabins?

 

Would the ship need an immediate cleaning of commonly touched surfaces like during a norovirus outbreak?

 

Until this plays out on a ship and of course it will, we really do not know how things will work out.

 

Also you could have a very responsible person who develops mild symptoms, doesn't report to medial unit, maintains distancing and hand washing and doesn't spread the virus. It's also very possible.

Edited October 7, 2020 by flyguyjake

[chipmaster]

28 minutes ago, Tapi said:

Let’s not make this more complicated than it has to be.

- Tests don’t protect 100%
- Masks don’t protect 100%
- Distancing doesn’t protect 100%
- Heightened sanitation doesn’t protect 100%
 

BUT 

 

Tests + Masks + Distancing + heightened sanitation gets us as close to that coveted 100% as it’s possible at this time, and that’s why the cruise lines will be doing all of these when they restart.
 

We can sit here and analyze, protest, tear apart, and play online doctor or scientist all we want concerning these protocols. It won’t make a difference. Either we abide by them if we want to go cruising, or we don’t and stay home. 

 

Sadly most don't seem to believe with you.

 

A systematic and unified practice utilizing test/mask/social-distancing/good disease prevention are minimum.

 

But for cruising to happen with low probability of infected people infecting more people requires a country and all visiting ports and all people to be in a system where there is a good system of  testing/containment/mitigation.    

 

Testing prior to boarding is good, but not nearly enough as you can be infected and negative and later still infect many thousands on the ship.

[Karma5]

You have a good point or two........it really isn't safe until a vaccine is available............

[lovescats5]

And yet, a vaccine is not going to be 100% effective either.  I used to get a flu shot and always got the flu, stopped getting the shot and have not had the flu since.   And if they test you before boarding why do you have to get a test within 5 days of showing up, since with all the scenarios listed you could, or could not, or maybe or whatever everyone said test negative at home and then positive at the port.  Hard to justify flying across the country with a negative test just to test differently at port and then sent home.