The Great Demise

[kona_wahine]

we’ve had our 2 shots, have our nice little card. Question is the ports: will we be able to roam free? I’m a port person, not a ship person. If I can’t get off and do what I want I won’t be cruising. 

[tidecat]

6 hours ago, kona_wahine said:

we’ve had our 2 shots, have our nice little card. Question is the ports: will we be able to roam free? I’m a port person, not a ship person. If I can’t get off and do what I want I won’t be cruising. 

I wouldn't count on it for 2021 or 2022, but no one knows for sure. Those cruising in Europe right now cannot explore ports on their own.

[PelicanBill]

The cruise lines already are in control of the data about your booking. They simply won't talk to you about it if you are using a TA.  I have had a TA submit my information incorrectly before, and it was quite a process to get it corrected.

 

They can simply make your vaccine proof part of the electronic check in.  If there is a CDC database made available by then to validate you, well that's terrific and terrifying. (I am going through identify theft now.)

 

They could require or allow you to upload a picture of your vaccine card.

 

They could require you to certify you are vaccinated and tell you to bring proof the same as you must bring your passport or other identity documents.

 

Not too hard.

 

[SLCfirsttimer]

1 hour ago, PelicanBill said:

The cruise lines already are in control of the data about your booking. They simply won't talk to you about it if you are using a TA.  I have had a TA submit my information incorrectly before, and it was quite a process to get it corrected.

 

They can simply make your vaccine proof part of the electronic check in.  If there is a CDC database made available by then to validate you, well that's terrific and terrifying. (I am going through identify theft now.)

 

They could require or allow you to upload a picture of your vaccine card.

 

They could require you to certify you are vaccinated and tell you to bring proof the same as you must bring your passport or other identity documents.

 

Not too hard.

 

I anticipate there would be some issues with forged vaccination cards if they went that route. While the database idea makes sense from a fraud prevention standpoint, there may be some privacy issues that could make it challenging to implement. One possibility that they could consider is a system similar to what the state of Hawaii has implemented for travel to the islands. Travelers are required to submit a negative test result from a trusted lab partner to the state of Hawaii prior to travel. The test must be taken within 72 hours of the scheduled departure to Hawaii. 

 

I think the cruise companies could implement something similar where the cruiser is the one that is required to provide the information from a recognized vaccination provider, thus the cruiser is in a way providing consent for the health information to be made available to the cruiseline, rather than having the cruiseline query a database trying to determine who is and who isn't vaccinated.

[ontheweb]

On 3/1/2021 at 6:17 AM, RWolver672 said:

 

I can see it now.  In the future there will be all kinds of questions asked on here.  "Can we make a copy of our shot record for proof?"  "Does it have to have a seal on it?"  "Do we keep our original in the safe?"  "Do we have to guard it like we do our passports?"  "Do we have to take it ashore with us?"  "Can we laminate them?"

 

For anyone that hasn't gotten the shots yet, the proof cards are 3x4 inches.  Not something that you can just put in your wallet.  What happens if you misplace it?  Is there a record somewhere that you can get a replacement?  Lots of things to think about.

 

We got our second shots yesterday. The advice about the card given was keep it in a safe place.

[Moviela]

I don't see that there will any change in the relationship with cruise lines and the travel agencies. The agencies do the majority of the selling. They have the time to spend with clients to find what travel options will suit them best. As good as they are the cruise line websites and phone folk's cannot duplicate the service of a travel agent. 

 

There have been two major events that have changed travel agencies forever. Deregulation of the airlines and the widespread availability of the internet. Commissions have been crushed to the point that travel agents are forced to charge clients for some services, others sneak in fees like "ticket issue fee" and my favorite "seat selection fee." You will notice a lot of brick and mortar and internet agencies are cruise only businesses. That is because the commissions are still high enough to make a living, even for part time or small fish individuals can work.  

 

The virus numbers world wide are dropping like a stone which tells me that the vaccine is helping, the poor folks that have endured the disease are contributing to the rapid decline in new infections, and treatments for the afflicted are better to reduce deaths. Vaccine in the arms of the over 65 crowd helps reduce the death toll because that age range has suffered more deaths than any other group. Predictions of herd immunity by experts by April are probably correct. 

 

I think the CDC will be able to drop some of the more draconian items from their wish list to control the industry. Things like mandatory mask wearing, excessive testing, cruise duration, and the need for simulated cruises will be moot. Those who have made the choice to be vaccinated, and have their CDC Record Card should be free to leave the ship in ports unescorted. Some hygienic elements of the present situation should remain. Increased sanitizing of surfaces, servers in the buffet lines, reminders to wash hands often, and temperature checks should remain. 

[jetsfan58]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:30 AM, BoozinCroozin said:

TA's would not be responsible for vaccination verification. Cruise lines will have limited ability as well other than asking the question and possibly reviewing a database from the government that simply says Yes or No. They have no authority to question or verify beyond that. The other issue is verification. Vaccine verification documents were available the day vaccines went out. Anyone can get a vaccine card saying they were vaccinated for a few dollars. The cruise lines have no authority over HIPAA laws and will have to accept what vaccination documentation they are offered from passengers. The other issue is if they cruise target vaccines. They can't simply target Covid. They could have issues with not verifying against other, equally damaging vaccines. There are a bunch of anti-vaxxers that have false information on polio, whooping cough, measles, etc. Should I be singled out for a Covid vaccine verification while they are not verified for all of the other pandemic diseases. It opens a massive can of worms and legalities that cruise lines simply do not have the money to mitigate as protocols or in courts. They are better off accepting what passengers say and deal with anything that comes afterwards. 

Excellent points of view. However, I still believe that somehow a specific mandate has to be engaged so that Cruise Lines have a much more solid "direct hand" in enforcing the eventual finalized Covid Cruise mandates. Otherwise we will never get pass square zero (where we currently reside as in being currently shut out of Cruising). Way too vague to have the Cruise Lines just "accept" our word and/or a bootlegged card stating that we are "Good To Cruise". We have to get beyond this process.   

[dallasdan]

When I received my Covid test results the form they gave me could easily be forged if I was that type of person.  From the pictures I have seen of the vaccination card it looks like those could be forged.  I see lots of issues with requiring a vaccine passport or proof of vaccination.  My health insurance has my first name spelled wrong and it took me several days of phone calls to figure out why I was being denied health coverage.  Can you imagine having to go through the CDC for a vaccination card? 

[gtalum]

21 hours ago, bucfan2 said:

That's a true statement.  I would beg to differ on Fl leading the way on relaxing the 'burdensome' rules though.  DeSantis has never been for the 'stay scared' mantra/approach.

 

Florida: No State Mandate

Although city and county-level mandates exist, Gov. Ron DeSantis suspended all fines and penalties associated with not adhering to COVID-19-related restrictions on Sept. 25, hindering local leaders from enforcing their mandates.

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/these-are-the-states-with-mask-mandates

 

Some counties have figured out a workaround.  Hillsborough County, for instance, takes away restaurants' and bars' business licenses if they get too many mask infractions.

[kona_wahine]

10 hours ago, ontheweb said:

We got our second shots yesterday. The advice about the card given was keep it in a safe place.

This is what we were told also.

[PhillyFan33579]

On 2/27/2021 at 2:14 PM, jetsfan58 said:

I am just ready to "Get On A Boat"

Come to Florida. I have been on a boat numerous times over the last year and see them all over the place when driving around the Tampa area. On the other hand, I look forward to hopefully one day sooner than later getting back on a ship. I learned a long time ago calling a cruise ship a boat is very insulting to the senior staff...it must be an Italian thing. 

[elcuchio24]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:23 PM, jetsfan58 said:

Hello Cruise Nuts. I wanted to present a topic that is really critical today and possibly moving forward. We have now accepted (at least some of us have) that the Covid Virus has altered our lives in a dramatic fashion. I continue to pray and hope that a remedy is found to help minimize the spreading of this ongoing nuisance. I had a though yesterday regarding the Cruise Line's potentially requiring all passengers to show proof of vaccination. In conjunction with a fear of further delaying our long awaited cruise adventures, they might even desire to "totally" control the process of verification, ticketing and onboarding.  

 

With the above mentioned, would you think that the day will ever come when Carnival and all other Cruise Lines "restrict" outside Cruise Travel Agencies from booking their Cruise adventures? They might feel that they are better able to "control" the flow of infection rates and overall minimization better than the outside agencies? I realize that this process would potentially mean loss of jobs, total industry shakeup, loss of already waning loyalty and generally create additional upset Customers!!!      

 

Really interested in your transparent and "non" political insights?  Cruising Is Fundamental!!!

 

Initially they will control things tighter, but very soon everyone will have either been infected or vaccinated, and then it will loosen

[elcuchio24]

7 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Come to Florida. I have been on a boat numerous times over the last year and see them all over the place when driving around the Tampa area. On the other hand, I look forward to hopefully one day sooner than later getting back on a ship. I learned a long time ago calling a cruise ship a boat is very insulting to the senior staff...it must be an Italian thing. 

 

More people and boats, and the busiest boating season in Maine last summer, ever. 

[asalligo]

Carnival is in the business of making money. None of what you mentioned will effect their relationship with travel agents, only whether or not they continue to make money in the relationship. 

[jetsfan58]

13 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Come to Florida. I have been on a boat numerous times over the last year and see them all over the place when driving around the Tampa area. On the other hand, I look forward to hopefully one day sooner than later getting back on a ship. I learned a long time ago calling a cruise ship a boat is very insulting to the senior staff...it must be an Italian thing. 

It believe it was called the "Love Boat" and not the "Love Ship" if I am not mistaken. Although caddy in nature we all still remember that show. We have to lighten up and enjoy living!!!

[jetsfan58]

5 hours ago, elcuchio24 said:

 

Initially they will control things tighter, but very soon everyone will have either been infected or vaccinated, and then it will loosen

Let's pray that you are correct!!!

[PhillyFan33579]

1 hour ago, jetsfan58 said:

It believe it was called the "Love Boat" and not the "Love Ship" if I am not mistaken. Although caddy in nature we all still remember that show. We have to lighten up and enjoy living!!!

That is an excellent point about the Love Boat. I have never understood why, but I have been to several Diamond special events where the senior officers talked about how they hated it when passengers called their ship a boat. 

[bucfan2]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

That is an excellent point about the Love Boat. I have never understood why, but I have been to several Diamond special events where the senior officers talked about how they hated it when passengers called their ship a boat. 

Wonder how the crew of ‘The Big Red Boat’ felt about it?

[bitemyfly]

3 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

That is an excellent point about the Love Boat. I have never understood why, but I have been to several Diamond special events where the senior officers talked about how they hated it when passengers called their ship a boat. 

I fish in a 39ft boat, a boat is small enough to be carried aboard a larger vessel , and a vessel large enough to carry a smaller one is generally a ship. ... If it has a permanent crew with a commanding officer, it's usually a ship.. from my old captain license course ..

[Jelly_Toast]

First of all, I think it's a very sad state of affairs that when discussing a global pandemic there has to be a request to not be political. Is that really where we are, that coming together as humans to reduce the effects of the pandemic is controversial?

 

I haven't really thought about it, but I don't see Carnival not allowing Travel Agents.  They can still implement checks at boarding to take temperatures, health questionnaires and verification of vaccines or recent tests. As far as I'm concerned, this is all welcome to me.  Perhaps I'm in the minority but the more stringent they are that passengers are healthy (including me), the less likely I will leave the cruise ill.

 

Bring on (safe!) cruising. The quicker we come together to reduce the spread of the virus the sooner we will be toasting at sail away.

[jetsfan58]

Now the Cruise nerd in my character had to find out:

 

According to The Straight Dope:

"Among sailing vessels, the distinction between ships and boats is that a ship is a square-rigged craft with at least three masts, and a boat isn't. With regard to motorized craft, a ship is a large vessel intended for oceangoing or at least deep-water transport, and a boat is anything else."

 

Basically, a ship can carry a boat, but a boat cannot carry a ship.

 

I have met many "ship" "boat" Captains during my sailing ventures. Those that I had a chance to speak with were very humble individuals. They felt really blessed to be able to do something that they love and call it work. This topic actually came up during a few conversations with them. The majority of the Captains didn't really care what their vessels were called as long as everyone had fun and obeyed their instructions.  

 

 

 

[Redtravel]

Can you blame TAs? They have suffered during the pandemic.  No bookings, refunds, rebooking using fcc doesn’t make them much money. Many travel agencies have laid off workers or just closed.  I get emails with positive colored updates from travel agents. They’re hoping that it might sway you to book.  Some will. Many won’t.  We are all tired of staying home. Not much choice even with vaccine. Just wait.

[jetsfan58]

9 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

Can you blame TAs? They have suffered during the pandemic.  No bookings, refunds, rebooking using fcc doesn’t make them much money. Many travel agencies have laid off workers or just closed.  I get emails with positive colored updates from travel agents. They’re hoping that it might sway you to book.  Some will. Many won’t.  We are all tired of staying home. Not much choice even with vaccine. Just wait.

Thank you for your transparent commentary. I am certainly not implying that Cruise Agents get out the business. Nor should they be blamed for anything that has happened. I don't personally utilize Cruise Agents but we do know a few that were forced to retire their businesses because of the effects of the pandemic. My personal opinion is that the Cruise Industry is going to have to mandate some form of enhanced "Checks and Balances" via these Cruise agencies so that a "double" layer of safety protection is engaged. I am also not involved directly within the Medical profession so I can't tell you what those mandates should resemble. I am also not a Cruise Agent but I would think that the majority of them would welcome an "Approval" stamp of safety from their Cruise Corporate Partners. Now that type of endorsement certainly would not damage their business.   

[PrettyPenny7]

3 hours ago, Jelly_Toast said:

First of all, I think it's a very sad state of affairs that when discussing a global pandemic there has to be a request to not be political. Is that really where we are, that coming together as humans to reduce the effects of the pandemic is controversial?

 

I haven't really thought about it, but I don't see Carnival not allowing Travel Agents.  They can still implement checks at boarding to take temperatures, health questionnaires and verification of vaccines or recent tests. As far as I'm concerned, this is all welcome to me.  Perhaps I'm in the minority but the more stringent they are that passengers are healthy (including me), the less likely I will leave the cruise ill.

 

Bring on (safe!) cruising. The quicker we come together to reduce the spread of the virus the sooner we will be toasting at sail away.

Sadly yes, this is really where we are (politically). 😔 

But definitely agree with everything else in your post.

[jetsfan58]

35 minutes ago, PrettyPenny7 said:

Sadly yes, this is really where we are (politically). 😔 

But definitely agree with everything else in your post.

Again it's due to our current landscape and the sector of our US population that are apparently offended by the politics of today. I have a mantra that I live by and it is:

 

"If it's The Truth Then It's Not Political". Transparency always Wins.