CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions

[bEwAbG]

U.S. Representatives and Senators are rarely interested in a back and forth and neither are their staff.  They get too much correspondence for that.  You need to state your opinion for or against whatever it is and wish them a nice day so that the staff member can note the topic and your opinion.  They're looking for public sentiment on issues and not a discussion. Personal letters get more weight than filling out a form on some website as part of an email blast.  Routine matters will usually have a form letter response of some sort to send out, but it is an actual person who reads what you wrote and determines the best way to respond.  Like with all correspondence, it's best to keep it short and sweet and to the point.

 

They can also help grease the wheels of the bureaucracy when you're having a particular problem.  Again, "I'm having this problem. Could you help me?" and not a long diatribe against government.

[PTC DAWG]

Meanwhile, Delta is going full capacity in May...that will be all US airlines flying full capacity I believe.  

[jagoffee]

14 hours ago, nocl said:

That is because inside of the US the Federal Government does not have the power to shutdown businesses or activities if they reside inside of a state.

 

They could, if it decided to be necessary, control or limit interstate  movement.  But have not chosen to do so. As well as international.  The need for a test before flying back to the US is an example.  They could do that for interstate domestic flights as well but chose not to. 

Great points and it was the answer that I expected, since I also cannot think of any other industry currently shutdown as a result of a Federal action.  
 

nocl, I know this is off of the topic of the question you answered for me. You always have an informed opinion, so here is some thoughts.
 

Some cruises in the world are currently operating with tight restrictions and many other cruises are planned to be operating by the start of summer.  The CDC could eliminate the “No sail order”and immediately replace it with a recommendation for Americans to avoid cruises worldwide.  (If that is what they believe). They could also say that any passenger visiting or leaving a cruise ship at a US port must have a confirmed negative Covid test result.  (Then it would be more like what is being done with international air travel). Although it would be much more controversial, they might consider requiring anyone 18 years or older to have proof of a full quarantine. They should be consistent with this requirement.
 

Given that we have a very active vaccination program across the US, it is really does not seem fair/consistent to have a hard “No Sail Order” until November 1.  (Independent of how justified the original “No Sail Order” was at the time.)  It is just forcing cruise lines to move business to other countries.  Continuing this order appears punitive.  Cruising is going to happen with or without the CDC’s blessing.  Should every Cruise company really need to have their own plan approved?  How is it any different if a million US residents fly to the Caribbean or Bahamas, takes a cruise, then fly back to the US,  then having the same million residents cruising from a US port without the flight?  
 

 

 

 

[nocl]

19 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

Great points and it was the answer that I expected, since I also cannot think of any other industry currently shutdown as a result of a Federal action.  
 

nocl, I know this is off of the topic of the question you answered for me. You always have an informed opinion, so here is some thoughts.
 

Some cruises in the world are currently operating with tight restrictions and many other cruises are planned to be operating by the start of summer.  The CDC could eliminate the “No sail order”and immediately replace it with a recommendation for Americans to avoid cruises worldwide.  (If that is what they believe). They could also say that any passenger visiting or leaving a cruise ship at a US port must have a confirmed negative Covid test result.  (Then it would be more like what is being done with international air travel). Although it would be much more controversial, they might consider requiring anyone 18 years or older to have proof of a full quarantine. They should be consistent with this requirement.
 

Given that we have a very active vaccination program across the US, it is really does not seem fair/consistent to have a hard “No Sail Order” until November 1.  (Independent of how justified the original “No Sail Order” was at the time.)  It is just forcing cruise lines to move business to other countries.  Continuing this order appears punitive.  Cruising is going to happen with or without the CDC’s blessing.  Should every Cruise company really need to have their own plan approved?  How is it any different if a million US residents fly to the Caribbean or Bahamas, takes a cruise, then fly back to the US,  then having the same million residents cruising from a US port without the flight?  
 

 

 

 

In Europe the cruises prior to the ones that will start in the UK and Israel have been limited to those registered in the country they have been sailing from and in accordance with whatever requirements have been determined to be necessary by there health authorities.  I would expect those requirements to be in accordance with the EU guidelines that were published last year.

 

They have also had very reduced ports and few if any outside of the country.  Many were sails to nowhere.

 

Even now with conditions in places like Italy  the cruises have stopped.

 

The EU guidelines are not dissimilar from those listed in the CDC order.  They do have many of the same requirements concerning testing, capacity, limited cruise length, agreements for medical care and handling of COVID infected individuals that are in the CDC framework. The major difference is the test cruises and the management liability for failure to follow the plan they submit.

 

I expect that once the current trials in the US concerning the performance of vaccines in terms of asymptomatic infection and transmission.  Currently expected to be done in August will provide the information for the CDC for them to make the determination if vaccination will be sufficient.

 

I am not sure that even if the CDC reduced the requirements to testing at embarkation  and disembarkation, limited cruise length, fully vaccinated but still required the written plan with management liability for failure to execute that the cruise lines would start up here.

 

It is my belief that the cruise lines are fighting for the ability to be able to modify what they are requiring without CDC over sight and elimination of any legal liability if they were to do so.  Thus the focus on totally dropping the order, not modifying it.

 

 

 

[broberts]

28 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

The CDC could eliminate the “No sail order”and immediately replace it with a recommendation for Americans to avoid cruises worldwide.

 

Two different and unrelated things.

 

The CDC already warns people about unnecessary travel.

 

The no sail restriction is as much to protect against the influx of covid as anything else.

[Fouremco]

The CDC has recommended against cruise travel for some time and has published a Level 4 Travel Health Notice:

 

Level 4: Very High Level of COVID-19

Key Points for Cruise Ship Travelers

 

• CDC recommends that all people avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises, worldwide, because the risk of COVID-19 on cruise ships is very high. It is especially important that people with an increased risk of severe illness avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises.
• Cruise passengers are at increased risk of person-to-person spread of infectious diseases, including COVID-19, and outbreaks of COVID-19 have been reported on cruise ships.
• Passengers who decide to go on a cruise should get tested 3-5 days after your trip AND stay home for 7 days after travel. Even if you test negative, stay home for the full 7 days.
• If you don't get tested, it's safest to stay home for 10 days after you travel.  

[Spif Barwunkel]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

OK very good!  No you got me.  I have no evidence to support this claim.  Not one iota. Never got anywhere writing to Congress either.  It is possible that all of their policy decisions are made after they come here and consult with the likes of us.  That would be smart and a good use of their time anyway.  So just in case:  Joe are you listening?  Kamala did you see my posts?  Rochelle how are you today?  And Anthony thanks for everything so far.  Please let us cruise soon.  Amen.

The non-spiritual form of "The Holy Trinity" has been beckoned, by the right person I might add. I'm thinking things are going to start getting done, or undone, and quickly. Amen and Hallelujah.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Spif Barwunkel

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, PTC DAWG said:

Meanwhile, Delta is going full capacity in May...that will be all US airlines flying full capacity I believe.  

Every Southwest Airlines flight I have been on has been a full plane.  Even during the off hours.

[NMTraveller]

3 hours ago, cltnccruisers said:

We've been looking at land options as well.  In April I have a golf trip with the guys to Myrtle Beach then when I get back my wife, 2 daughters and a couple of their friends go to MB on a wine (or is it whine) trip.  If August doesn't happen we'll use that time to hit Charleston, Hilton Head or Savannah.

I have been looking at Charleston or Hilton Head as well.  Perhaps in the fall.  I am leaning towards Charleston but may go back and do Hilton Head as well.

[cltnccruisers]

2 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

I have been looking at Charleston or Hilton Head as well.  Perhaps in the fall.  I am leaning towards Charleston but may go back and do Hilton Head as well.

I'm a fan of Charleston because I'm a bit of a history nut.  It also has many great restaurants and beautiful architecture.  Hilton Head has some of the cleanest beaches in the Carolinas without the congestion of Myrtle Beach.  Very relaxing.

[lyndarra]

21 hours ago, nocl said:

However, the challenge for Australia is how many will get the vaccine.  My understanding is that vaccine uptake in Australia for other illnesses such as the flu is similar to the US.  In that case you may get 60 to 70% of the population vaccinated, having had relatively few cases of the illness that leaves a substantial portion of the population at risk when Australia does decide to open up.

 

It is going to be an interesting situation and it will be interesting to see what the strategy is for managing the opening.

The uptake for flu vaccine could be explained by our temperate climate. We do not experience the winter extremes of northern hemisphere countries. My late wife and I would get the flu vax each year mainly due to our frequent travels to northern hemisphere.

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, Fouremco said:

The CDC has recommended against cruise travel for some time and has published a Level 4 Travel Health Notice:

 

Level 4: Very High Level of COVID-19

Key Points for Cruise Ship Travelers

 

• CDC recommends that all people avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises, worldwide, because the risk of COVID-19 on cruise ships is very high. It is especially important that people with an increased risk of severe illness avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises.
• Cruise passengers are at increased risk of person-to-person spread of infectious diseases, including COVID-19, and outbreaks of COVID-19 have been reported on cruise ships.
• Passengers who decide to go on a cruise should get tested 3-5 days after your trip AND stay home for 7 days after travel. Even if you test negative, stay home for the full 7 days.
• If you don't get tested, it's safest to stay home for 10 days after you travel.  

 

Yes, and we have seen how well CDC warnings about not undertaking any "non-essential" travel have been heeded....

 

 

Perhaps we should do as they do in some other countries where a) proof of travel insurance is required to cruise and b) it is impossible to get travel insurance if there is an existing government warning not to travel to a particular country (or in this case to cruise).

 

[hcat]

4 hours ago, Fouremco said:

The CDC has recommended against cruise travel for some time and has published a Level 4 Travel Health Notice:

 

Level 4: Very High Level of COVID-19

Key Points for Cruise Ship Travelers

 

• CDC recommends that all people avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises, worldwide, because the risk of COVID-19 on cruise ships is very high. It is especially important that people with an increased risk of severe illness avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises.
• Cruise passengers are at increased risk of person-to-person spread of infectious diseases, including COVID-19, and outbreaks of COVID-19 have been reported on cruise ships.
• Passengers who decide to go on a cruise should get tested 3-5 days after your trip AND stay home for 7 days after travel. Even if you test negative, stay home for the full 7 days.
• If you don't get tested, it's safest to stay home for 10 days after you travel.  

Does not seem to be updated...no mention of vaccines??????

[K.T.B.]

5 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Two different and unrelated things.

 

The CDC already warns people about unnecessary travel.

 

The no sail restriction is as much to protect against the influx of covid as anything else.

 

Yeah, and people be like...

 

 

[broberts]

2 hours ago, hcat said:

Does not seem to be updated...no mention of vaccines??????

 

Why would there be at this point in time? Less than 25% of the population has been fully vaccinated. There is also little data yet on the impact of vaccinations in the population as a whole.

[NMTraveller]

[Hlitner]

I think that the CDC has done an appalling awful job with the COVID mess.  I saw their incompetence first hand in March 2020 when we moved through ATL after returning from Mexico.  And there has been numerous instances of misinformation (which continues to this day) which seem to designed to encourage certain public behaviors rather then dispensing the truth.  While well-intentioned (i.e. "lets bend the truth for their own good") it is not what I expect in a country that used to prize personal responsibility over a heavy handed government.    The reality is that the taxpayers have funded the CDC for decades so that they could competently guide us through any epidemic/pandemic!   And with COVID they have failed.....miserably.

 

On the other hand I do salute the NIH, which does deserve some of the credit for the Moderna vaccine which was helped along by their own scientists.  Moderna and NIH scientists have collaborated for years and it finally paid off with the success of mRNA technology (BioNtech also deserves lots of credit for their work and vaccine using similar technology).   I believe that an unintended good consequence of the COVID vaccine research is that it moved mRNA research/development ahead by several years which will likely result in a proliferation of new and very effective vaccines.  I also salute the FDA which seems to have finally learned to balance speed with safety.  The old FDA (pre HIV/Aids) would have taken years (if at all) to grant an EUA for a vaccine.  But with COVID they moved with unprecedented speed and likely saved hundreds of thousands or even millions of lives.

 

Hank

[TeeRick]

17 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

The non-spiritual form of "The Holy Trinity" has been beckoned, by the right person I might add. I'm thinking things are going to start getting done, or undone, and quickly. Amen and Hallelujah.

Awesome response.  You always get it!😀

[Spif Barwunkel]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Awesome response.  You always get it!😀

Thanks TR. It really is a shame that some folks don't get much of anything. Unless it is safely inside-the-box, inside-the-lines and basically the SOS, well, you are out of luck. Come at it from a different angle or perspective rather than "same old same old" and you have violated The Ten Commandments, The Constitution, The Magna Carta, The Book of Eli and The Rockford Files. Sometimes analogies and thought-provoking statements are helpful in seeing something peripherally. But too, if you are playing to an audience that turns a blind eye, then macular degeneration is  definitely in the house. 

 

If Aldous Huxley were here, he would understand. As would Alfred E. Neuman

 

Oh, and the CDC is doing fine.

 

[D C]

22 hours ago, Fouremco said:

The CDC has recommended against cruise travel for some time and has published a Level 4 Travel Health Notice:

 

Level 4: Very High Level of COVID-19

Key Points for Cruise Ship Travelers

 

• CDC recommends that all people avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises, worldwide, because the risk of COVID-19 on cruise ships is very high. It is especially important that people with an increased risk of severe illness avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises.
• Cruise passengers are at increased risk of person-to-person spread of infectious diseases, including COVID-19, and outbreaks of COVID-19 have been reported on cruise ships.
• Passengers who decide to go on a cruise should get tested 3-5 days after your trip AND stay home for 7 days after travel. Even if you test negative, stay home for the full 7 days.
• If you don't get tested, it's safest to stay home for 10 days after you travel.  

 

I don't believe they have changed the words to this recommendation in a year, and cruises being high risk is unfounded, especially with announcements that vaccines will be required.   Do they expect that people will heed their recommendation?   I would freely ignore it and go on a vaccinated cruise. 

[mnocket]

CDC director says data 'suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus'

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-director-data-vaccinated-people-do-not-carry-covid-19-2021-3

 

So why not allow cruises with 100% vaccinated passengers and crew?

Edited April 1, 2021 by mnocket

[PTC DAWG]

17 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Yeah, and people be like...

 

 

I just don't see the relevance of this....

[PTC DAWG]

2 minutes ago, mnocket said:

CDC director says data 'suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus'

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-director-data-vaccinated-people-do-not-carry-covid-19-2021-3

 

So why not allow cruises with 100% vaccinated passengers and crew?

She'll be in tears in a few days saying the exact opposite.  

[Spif Barwunkel]

12 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

She'll be in tears in a few days saying the exact opposite.  

Need Redfield back.

[TeeRick]

19 minutes ago, mnocket said:

CDC director says data 'suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus'

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-director-data-vaccinated-people-do-not-carry-covid-19-2021-3

 

So why not allow cruises with 100% vaccinated passengers and crew?

It is an evolution of thought based upon a lot of data now coming together.  So it is just a matter of time before there is an evolution of action.  Hopefully very soon.