Royal Caribbean increased capacity too fast?Are ports over reacting?

[Wannacruise81]

So this is probably a touchy subject and a gray area...but did Royal Caribbean increase the capacity levels too fast for the holiday cruises? A lot of passengers are spending a premium on these Christmas and New Years cruise and I see there are a lot of people on the boards saying that there is overcrowding and no social distancing. Staffing shortage is also a issue since there are dozens of crew who are being quarantined. Some are asymptomatic and others with mild cases. 

The omicron variant seems to be fast spreading but on the other hand very mild to the vaxed compared to other variants. South Africa which is where this variant "originated " has said this variant is all but gone and cases have declined as rapidly as it has started. Are the ports overreacting and not letting the cruise lines port because of the % of crew positive? I heard the crew aren't even allowed off in the ports except coco cay.  If the majority of the cases were among crew who test positive and are immediately quarantined, why are the ports worried about disembarking guests? Someone posted on the Odyssey that there are 60 cases. 57 being crew and 3 passengers. Since crew can't get off anyway then what's the issue? 

It's also weird that the production cast of the Odyssey and the Symphony are the ones who are positive.  Many of them have no guest interaction. Yes they could catch it from other crew but a whole cast being positive? I wonder if 1 cast member tests positive, if they quarantine the entire cast for being "exposed". 

I wonder if cruise lines will start fudging their numbers of cases amongst crew so they will be able to port. It seems like a trend that Curacao and Aruba has started. Now St Kitts, Grand Cayman, St Lucia, Puerto Vallerta have also turned away some ships. 

Has the media caused all this hype? Again there is 1% cases..but they are saying it is a "outbreak"....and most being crew who don't even get off the ship. Again each country can do what they want....but aren't we at the point where everyone has decided we have to live with this virus? Soon we will have to be tested if you have the common cold. 

 

 

[Crazy planning mom]

17 minutes ago, Wannacruise81 said:

So this is probably a touchy subject and a gray area...but did Royal Caribbean increase the capacity levels too fast for the holiday cruises? A lot of passengers are spending a premium on these Christmas and New Years cruise and I see there are a lot of people on the boards saying that there is overcrowding and no social distancing. Staffing shortage is also a issue since there are dozens of crew who are being quarantined. Some are asymptomatic and others with mild cases. 

The omicron variant seems to be fast spreading but on the other hand very mild to the vaxed compared to other variants. South Africa which is where this variant "originated " has said this variant is all but gone and cases have declined as rapidly as it has started. Are the ports overreacting and not letting the cruise lines port because of the % of crew positive? I heard the crew aren't even allowed off in the ports except coco cay.  If the majority of the cases were among crew who test positive and are immediately quarantined, why are the ports worried about disembarking guests? Someone posted on the Odyssey that there are 60 cases. 57 being crew and 3 passengers. Since crew can't get off anyway then what's the issue? 

It's also weird that the production cast of the Odyssey and the Symphony are the ones who are positive.  Many of them have no guest interaction. Yes they could catch it from other crew but a whole cast being positive? I wonder if 1 cast member tests positive, if they quarantine the entire cast for being "exposed". 

I wonder if cruise lines will start fudging their numbers of cases amongst crew so they will be able to port. It seems like a trend that Curacao and Aruba has started. Now St Kitts, Grand Cayman, St Lucia, Puerto Vallerta have also turned away some ships. 

Has the media caused all this hype? Again there is 1% cases..but they are saying it is a "outbreak"....and most being crew who don't even get off the ship. Again each country can do what they want....but aren't we at the point where everyone has decided we have to live with this virus? Soon we will have to be tested if you have the common cold. 

 

 

I don't think the ports are overreacting.  They have to protect their citizens who may not be vaccinated.  As far as the ships being too crowded, until very recently Royal was doing well with outbreaks.  The problem is the omnicron variant is very contagious.  I hope that things improve quickly here like it did in South Africa.

[Mapleleafforever]

Omicron threw a wrench is all. Hope the ships are able to keep staffing levels close to normal the next few months. Anyone cruising for the next little while should expect a different experience than what they're used to......no matter how much they paid. 

[superduper123]

I am sailing on Dec 31 (Serenade).  No official notice of any changes yet, but I expect we may be in for a surprise or two......

[Tolkmit]

No to both.

Royal is still sailing far below the numbers they were allowing pre-pandemic, and is seeing similar or better positive rates as on land.

Islands, like the rest of the world, are still learning about omicron, but have a much, much harder time dealing with it if their hospital system were to get overwhelmed, compared to other places. Omicron is still new enough, that erring on the side of caution until we have a couple more weeks of data makes sense for them. If all of the current data holds true, them not allowing the cruise ships in was unnecessary. But a week or two of missing out on some of the ships, in exchange for essentially doubling the data they have, as well as seeing if the cruise lines can contain the outbreak or not among their crew, makes sense.

 

Finally, the cancelled shows etc. are indeed because Royal doesn't just quarantine crew who test positive, they quarantine crew who had close contact with someone who tested positive. So one positive dancer can easily result in shows being canceled, they all work so closely together.

[shavdog]

What I find alittle strange is the Royal board is the only one where the majority of the talk is around covid, missed ports, etc...go on Celebrity, Princess and even Carnival and most of the talk is aournd cruising not covid.....

 

[bajathree]

It's a perfect holiday storm of increased capacity along with Omicron and not changing protocal to vaccinated kids only.

[zekekelso]

We. Don’t. Know. Lots of amateur epidemiologists out there spreading “facts” and opinions. But it’s way too early. 

[livingonthebeach]

The capacity naturally goes down after New Years -- it's called the wave season and has the lowest demand of the year. The islands not allowing entry is a bigger problem.  They did get the DR to open one of its ports to make up for the ABC islands closure.  The weather here on the East Coast of FL is great today.  I just checked Cape Canaveral and weather is good there too.  Don't know why Anthem is skipping Cape Canaveral other than if there are Covid cases onboard they risk being turned away and again more bad publicity. 

[soremekun]

Here's the letter we received on Anthem yesterday regarding the port stop today:

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by soremekun

[A&L_Ont]

14 minutes ago, bajathree said:

It's a perfect holiday storm of increased capacity along with Omicron and not changing protocal to vaccinated kids only.

All these factors have made the “perfect” situation.

[livingonthebeach]

6 minutes ago, soremekun said:

Here's the letter we received on Anthem yesterday regardyoir port stop today:

 

 

Don't get it -- weather report has clear skies, hardly any wind and in the 70s.  What could be wrong with that weather? They are close by and not scheduled to arrive until 2pm. Strange. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by livingonthebeach

[livingonthebeach]

53 minutes ago, soremekun said:

Weird thing is Anthem is skipping Orlando today.  They claim bad weather but the radar shows Port Canaveral is clear today.  I think it's to avoid Florida's high Covid numbers and it being a mask-free state.

 

From the cruise mapper it looks like last night at around midnight they made the choice to skip Cape Canaveral as they veered off scheduled track.  It appears the weather was fine then and it's fine now.

[bajathree]

10 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

From the cruise mapper it looks like last night at around midnight they made the choice to skip Cape Canaveral as they veered off scheduled track.  It appears the weather was fine then and it's fine now.

Coincidence that Harmony has a delayed debarkation today in port Canaveral ?

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by bajathree

[soremekun]

Anthem's current location.  Clear skies and relatively smooth waters.  Ignore the dropped pin.

 

[little britain]

15 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

From the cruise mapper it looks like last night at around midnight they made the choice to skip Cape Canaveral as they veered off scheduled track.  It appears the weather was fine then and it's fine now.

Friends on Anthem say it was very rough last night - the worst they have ever had seen....

[Laurie997]

We leave on HOTS on 1-23 we saw all the shows less than 4 weeks ago but still that is the majority of money we spend is for entertainment. Questioning if we should just reschedule or stay on board. We are completely vaccinated with our boosters. Poor cruise lines honestly.

[livingonthebeach]

5 minutes ago, little britain said:

Friends on Anthem say it was very rough last night - the worst they have ever had seen....

 

Wonder if it was bad enough to make that change way in advance -- the weather seems perfect now and the ship not due into Cape Canaveral until 2pm.  

[JoelinSedona]

26 minutes ago, Laurie997 said:

We leave on HOTS on 1-23 we saw all the shows less than 4 weeks ago but still that is the majority of money we spend is for entertainment. Questioning if we should just reschedule or stay on board. We are completely vaccinated with our boosters. Poor cruise lines honestly.

You'll probably be OK as long as the passenger count goes back down. Our problem this past week is that Royal boosted the capacity as Christmas approached but was understaffed and thus had limited hours for activities and entertainment. This resulted in people lining up cheek to cheek whenever something did open up.

[JoelinSedona]

I was fully aware that we were going on a cruise just before Christmas (during a pandemic) and things would be crowded. It's just that the crew said there was about 4300 passengers on board which is way below full capacity. I have been on full capacity Oasis class cruises before yet this one felt every bit as crowded because so many things were not running.  We spoke with a few crew members and asked them why so many activities were not running and every single one said they were understaffed.  Now I get that some staff were suddenly "out of service" but Royal should have stepped up and offered at least some token compensation. They were ramping up the passenger count in a cash grab for weeks ahead of time and gambled wrong. I will cruise them again (have 2 more cruises coming up) but I'm holding off on booking more until the "value" of what I'm paying for improves. Not cool to bill yourself as an activities intensive cruise line and then expect people to be satisfied when you can't deliver because you planned badly on the crew to passenger ratio. When IRROPS happen, a company with good customer service will at least try to make things right.

[emeraldcity]

FYI ... it is not a true that the entertainers don't have access to passenger areas. I chatted with ice show performers in the Windjammer a few weeks ago.

[hackwid]

I just got off the Odyssey of the Seas Xmas cruise.  There is a two factor problem to what Royal did with increasing capacity.  When we booked it was still 45%.  They actually sailed at 85%.  The cruise we were originally on for Xmas was actually more expensive then the Odyssey price.  At one time the Odyssey for two was over 3k.  We switched to this cruise and it was $1600 for 2 in a deck 9 mid ship balcony.

So what Royal did was cut the prices of the bigger ships in half around the holiday and that enticed all these really large groups to book.  We saw groups of 12-25 people all over the ship.  This is our 3rd cruise we have sailed since the restart and most of the passengers were couples or small families.  So what happens with these bigger groups is there is power in numbers.  Many dont wear masks at all - or correctly.  They do not obey the 6 people at max in elevator and they all are together all over the ship.  That just creates an environment for this virus to spread quickly.  I did not see one staff member EVER ask someone to mask up directly.  They may have made an announcement about it; but, never actually addressed the issue on board.  They may have served you in the Windjammer; but, all over the ship - in concierge lounge, cafe and windjammer you served yourself drinks.  Which meant everyone was touching the buttons for ice and liquids.  What is the point of serving us at the buffet if you can all touch the same machines?  In the end- if you wanted to feel safe it meant distancing yourself and spending more time in the room.  Clearly that was the direction the ship wanted you to go as they made movies in the room, added specials for you to watch and also played the shows on the tv that we all missed.   In the end- this week is going to be worse for cruiselines as the New Years cruises are always the most popular week.  I will say this- our cabin attendent went down with Covid on day 3.  Which means for 3 days he was in our room 2x a day cleaning .... with covid.  Why didnt the crew get tested when the last cruise ended before we boarded?  Why did the ship wait for 3 days to test the crew when they knew the previous week had many cases on board.  If you were a passenger and had mild symptoms. would you have presented at the medical center to lose your balcony room to be in quarantine on deck 3?  The ship is counting on that to keep their passenger numbers reasonable.  Once off the ship the amount of people who will test positive will not be included in those figures.  The only numbers that really give a snapshot to what is going on is crew because Royal can not hide those numbers.

[RoyalC]

24 minutes ago, hackwid said:

I just got off the Odyssey of the Seas Xmas cruise.  There is a two factor problem to what Royal did with increasing capacity.  When we booked it was still 45%.  They actually sailed at 85%.  The cruise we were originally on for Xmas was actually more expensive then the Odyssey price.  At one time the Odyssey for two was over 3k.  We switched to this cruise and it was $1600 for 2 in a deck 9 mid ship balcony.

So what Royal did was cut the prices of the bigger ships in half around the holiday and that enticed all these really large groups to book.  We saw groups of 12-25 people all over the ship.  This is our 3rd cruise we have sailed since the restart and most of the passengers were couples or small families.  So what happens with these bigger groups is there is power in numbers.  Many dont wear masks at all - or correctly.  They do not obey the 6 people at max in elevator and they all are together all over the ship.  That just creates an environment for this virus to spread quickly.  I did not see one staff member EVER ask someone to mask up directly.  They may have made an announcement about it; but, never actually addressed the issue on board.  They may have served you in the Windjammer; but, all over the ship - in concierge lounge, cafe and windjammer you served yourself drinks.  Which meant everyone was touching the buttons for ice and liquids.  What is the point of serving us at the buffet if you can all touch the same machines?  In the end- if you wanted to feel safe it meant distancing yourself and spending more time in the room.  Clearly that was the direction the ship wanted you to go as they made movies in the room, added specials for you to watch and also played the shows on the tv that we all missed.   In the end- this week is going to be worse for cruiselines as the New Years cruises are always the most popular week.  I will say this- our cabin attendent went down with Covid on day 3.  Which means for 3 days he was in our room 2x a day cleaning .... with covid.  Why didnt the crew get tested when the last cruise ended before we boarded?  Why did the ship wait for 3 days to test the crew when they knew the previous week had many cases on board.  If you were a passenger and had mild symptoms. would you have presented at the medical center to lose your balcony room to be in quarantine on deck 3?  The ship is counting on that to keep their passenger numbers reasonable.  Once off the ship the amount of people who will test positive will not be included in those figures.  The only numbers that really give a snapshot to what is going on is crew because Royal can not hide those numbers.

This was my experience on Odyssey which I posted before. I caught covid on this ship for the reasons stated above. Your attendant gets tested every so often- probably not daily. There is always a lag between infection and testing positive on antigen test.

[hackwid]

1 minute ago, RoyalC said:

This was my experience on Odyssey which I posted before. I caught covid on this ship for the reasons stated above. Your attendant gets tested every so often- probably not daily. There is always a lag between infection and testing positive on antigen test.

The captain admitted the crew gets tested only weekly.  so why wait until Tuesday when we boarded Saturday? 

[bouhunter]

28 minutes ago, hackwid said:

The captain admitted the crew gets tested only weekly.  so why wait until Tuesday when we boarded Saturday? 

The ships are full of customers all day every day, why would it matter?