Eliminating Butlers - Spoke to Celebrity. Here is conversation.

[deliver42]

By not reducing the price, it means that all suites have a hefty price increase.

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

Not only are gratuities no longer included in Suites, but they no longer get any of the OBC for booking. This went into effect on all cruises booked after Oct 3rd this year, but prices for suites didn't go down to reflect the cost of tips and OBC. For our Edge SS next month that would have been a total of $1352 in lost benefits ($552 tips + $800 OBC), had we not booked before Oct 3rd.

This loss of OBC and tips included I think would be the need for  'pandemic pricing' being over and the real cost of cruising has kicked in (and their need to recover losses and show profit).  I for one have been spoiled by incentives.  In researching other cruise lines and land vacations, there seems to be the same comments...some never gave OBC, or food quality is diminished, or an unwanted excursion allowance and pricing higher.  It's the consumer's decision...to do or not to do (sorry Shakespeare...) that is the question.

[CruiseRQA]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

Not only are gratuities no longer included in Suites, but they no longer get any of the OBC for booking. This went into effect on all cruises booked after Oct 3rd this year, but prices for suites didn't go down to reflect the cost of tips and OBC. 

I guess that depends.

 

Our SS cabin last year was $2000 more than our SS cabin will be in a few weeks.   Last year we had tips included and ~$900 in OBC.  I think I am coming out ahead without the tips or OBC

[terrydtx]

3 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

This loss of OBC and tips included I think would be the need for  'pandemic pricing' being over and the real cost of cruising has kicked in (and their need to recover losses and show profit).  I for one have been spoiled by incentives.  In researching other cruise lines and land vacations, there seems to be the same comments...some never gave OBC, or food quality is diminished, or an unwanted excursion allowance and pricing higher.  It's the consumer's decision...to do or not to do (sorry Shakespeare...) that is the question.

I doubt it has anything to do with Pandemic pricing or profits. The AI tips and OBC was offered for booking Suites in 2019 before the pandemic as was a butler for SS, at least that is how I remember. Celebrity has discovered that people will continue book no matter what previous benefits or incentives are removed along with huge price increases. I for one will no longer play  along with their game.

[CruiseRQA]

21 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

By not reducing the price, it means that all suites have a hefty price increase.

This week I paid $15 for a Subway sandwich.   

[terrydtx]

5 minutes ago, CruiseRQA said:

I guess that depends.

 

Our SS cabin last year was $2000 more than our SS cabin will be in a few weeks.   Last year we had tips included and ~$900 in OBC.  I think I am coming out ahead without the tips or OBC

For same ship and itinerary?  The pricing for SS cabins on our two upcoming Edge cruises did not change after Oct 3rd and were 40% higher than we paid when we booked them in February 2022.

Edited December 29, 2023 by terrydtx

[CruiseRQA]

1 minute ago, terrydtx said:

For same ship and itinerary?  The pricing for SS cabins on our upcoming Edge cruise did not change after Oct 3rd, and was 40% higher than we paid when we booked it in February 2022.

Both E-class Caribbean 1 week cruises. 

[PTC DAWG]

21 hours ago, Veinless said:

 

 

No I am sincere. Staff can choose to work for a better cruise line. In the interim, to improve service, the Suite Tips Team will cover gratuities.

There’s always at least one…they live amongst us. 

[RichYak]

18 minutes ago, CruiseRQA said:

Our SS cabin last year was $2000 more than our SS cabin will be in a few weeks.   Last year we had tips included and ~$900 in OBC.  I think I am coming out ahead without the tips or OBC

You've mentioned this outlier numerous times on this board. Maybe you got a great deal this year, or got completely ripped off last year, or some combination of both.

 

If you pay any attention at all to Celebrity pricing, it's clear that this is not the norm. In general, suites fares have not come down anywhere near as much as the lost OBC and grats, sometimes not at all.

[HopefulCruiser123]

Last time I was in a Sky Suite (11 years ago) we had a butler.  We really didn’t take advantage of his services very much.  He brought breakfast once and very neatly set the table on our Verandah.  We didn’t care for the coffee at all, so thereafter I ran down to Cafe al bacio each morning while DH got dressed and brought back two cups of coffee we liked.  Other than that, we skipped breakfast each morning.

 

I did hand my butler a list on embarkation day of restaurant and hair salon appointments I was requesting he make for me and a request to see if he could arrange for a bridge tour during our sailing.  I asked for ice twice a day.  I asked for the mini fridge to be cleaned out.

 

After that first day (and the one breakfast on the Verandah), we really didn’t need him for anything else.

 

From reading this thread, it sounds like on our upcoming transatlantic retirement celebration cruise on Equinox in 2025 (if the world is still turning by then 🤪), and depending on this particular crew and staff, I will be navigating the reservation process on my own and I will need to specifically call the “retreated” staff for ice.   For reservations, I think there is an app I can use (?) to make at least the restaurant reservations.  Not sure about the method for salon appointments.

 

I won’t be taking advantage of room service (I don’t think I will, anyway) because that is usually a disappointing experience either from a service or quality standpoint.  So it should never be equated with the butler service IMHO.

 

Terrydtx has taken some ribbing for actually using the services of the butler perk that he paid for when he purchased his cruise fare. I say kudos to him and it is up to the cruise line to provide adequate staffing to fulfill the promises made when making the sale.

 

We book the sky suite for the extra room and a few of the extra perks like the drink package and then pretty much go the way of the majority of the other passengers.  Our booking had $50 OBC and we prepaid the gratuities.  I know we will have a fabulous time, and that I will gain a few pounds, and make some new friends along the way.  And on that last night on the ship I will be a little blue knowing the journey has come to an end.

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

I doubt it has anything to do with Pandemic pricing or profits. The AI tips and OBC was offered for booking Suites in 2019 before the pandemic as was a butler for SS, at least that is how I remember. Celebrity has discovered that people will continue book no matter what previous benefits or incentives are removed along with huge price increases. I for one will no longer play  along with their game.

Checked back through X spreadsheets for Incentives from 2011.  You're right, AI plus OBC was offered in 2019.  I didn't sail in pandemic years so have no data.    AI perhaps started in 2015.   OBC seemed to be offered as a promotion in prior years if booked at the right time...same with Bev/Grats/WiFi.  Not sure as I didn't break these costs down over the years...just paid them...LOL.  I'm not booked with X in 2024, so 2025 will be the first year without OBC in some time but I booked very early so price is quite less than current.

 

  

Edited December 29, 2023 by Oceangoer2

[abbydancer2003]

4 hours ago, terrydtx said:

For same ship and itinerary?  The pricing for SS cabins on our two upcoming Edge cruises did not change after Oct 3rd and were 40% higher than we paid when we booked them in February 2022.

I know our Edge cruise, which had been moved to 2025 did drop by about the amount of tips, but not the OBC.    And our 11 night 2025 cruise on Silhouette booked last week is almost 3K less than the 11 night 2024 cruise on the Apex booked before 10/3.

[jelayne]

We booked a Magic Carpet SS in December, 2022 for $20, 237.  A! and $800 OBC.

Today that same suite is $16,210 adding in the gratuities -$4027 less.  

With the changes and reaching Zenith we decided that the SS wasn't worth the cost and downgraded to a SV saving $11,500.  

 

Final payment is due in 2 weeks and currently there are 85 of the 162 Sky Suites open.  Not all sailing are filling the suites. 

 

We have another cruise next month  and at final payment

there were about 35 SS open, that increased and currently they are filled via move up.   So suites are sailing full but it seems that it is taking Move Up to fill them - so maybe some passengers are deciding that the price is to high and waiting for Move Up to pay a more realistic price.

 

[DaKahuna]

4 hours ago, HopefulCruiser123 said:

From reading this thread, it sounds like on our upcoming transatlantic retirement celebration cruise on Equinox in 2025 (if the world is still turning by then 🤪), and depending on this particular crew and staff, I will be navigating the reservation process on my own and I will need to specifically call the “retreated” staff for ice.   For reservations, I think there is an app I can use (?) to make at least the restaurant reservations.  Not sure about the method for salon appointments.

 

You can ask you stateroom attendant for ice twice a day. 

 The Retreat Concierge in the Retreat Lounge can take care of all the reservations.  You may even be contracted pre-cruise by the shore side concierge and you can request the restaurant and spa reservations be made by them.   

 

[Nachosdelux]

or just call the spa directly. just as easy and less chance of a mistake.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Nachosdelux

[chemmo]

15 minutes ago, jelayne said:

We booked a Magic Carpet SS in December, 2022 for $20, 237.  A! and $800 OBC.

Today that same suite is $16,210 adding in the gratuities -$4027 less.  

With the changes and reaching Zenith we decided that the SS wasn't worth the cost and downgraded to a SV saving $11,500.  

 

Final payment is due in 2 weeks and currently there are 85 of the 162 Sky Suites open.  Not all sailing are filling the suites. 

 

We have another cruise next month  and at final payment

there were about 35 SS open, that increased and currently they are filled via move up.   So suites are sailing full but it seems that it is taking Move Up to fill them - so maybe some passengers are deciding that the price is to high and waiting for Move Up to pay a more realistic price.

 

Congratulations at reaching Zenith!

 

I have been doing a bit (lot!) of browsing for the next couple of years and I am fairly horrified at the prices for suites compared to a few years ago…Especially two roomed suites (RS and PH) which have served our family so well over the years…

 

Quite simply, enough to make me think of looking at alternatives (both other cruise lines and alternative holidays). I am not a last minute booker, part of the pleasure of a holiday for me is the planning and looking forward to…Waiting to see if I could get a move up would spoil my pre holiday pleasure!

 

I guess Sky Suites have had a bad press in recent months with the butler changes…Celebrity must understand that you can’t charge top $ for a product, degrade the experience it offers and expect it to sell as well…

 

Good news for those looking for last minute upgrades though!

[39august]

Or call the Retreat phone number in advance and book reservations. I did this for spa appointments for our Jan. 18  cruise. Now I don't have ti deal with it on board. I would NOT count on Retreat Concierges getting reservations for you. They certainly didn't have time for that on our Sept. EQ cruise in the Retreat. Phone is 877-738-7328

[phoenix_dream]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:02 AM, CHEZMARYLOU said:

I don't advocate removing tips but cruisers in a Sky Suite pay the same daily rate as someone in the Iconic Suite but no longer have a butler.  Celebrity needs to adjust the amount of tips for SS closer to Aqua class because that is the level of service SS guests are receiving.

That is a valid point.  The services are reduced but the included grats are the same.  Hmmm.  One wonders if it all actually goes to the staff.  I would never reduce the grats as I do not want to hurt the staff but that is really something that should be looked at.

[TeeRick]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:47 AM, CruiseRQA said:

This week I paid $15 for a Subway sandwich.   

But was it the same quality or lower than a couple of years ago when maybe you paid $10?

[Oceangoer2]

Just now, TeeRick said:

But was it the same quality or lower than a couple of years ago when maybe you paid $10?

$15 is a stretch....😉

[terrydtx]

14 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

That is a valid point.  The services are reduced but the included grats are the same.  Hmmm.  One wonders if it all actually goes to the staff.  I would never reduce the grats as I do not want to hurt the staff but that is really something that should be looked at.

The problem is in Celebrity's corporate mind they believe the Butler Team is providing the same level or better service than before the change, so they see no reason to reduce the auto grats. That was what was basically told to me in the follow-up phone call I got from my email before our Apex cruise.

[C-Dragons]

14 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

$15 is a stretch....😉

Hardly. I just priced out a new sandwich at a nearby Subway and it came to $ 19.99 plus tax.

Of course YMMV.

[paulh84]

19 hours ago, jelayne said:

We have another cruise next month  and at final payment

there were about 35 SS open, that increased and currently they are filled via move up.   So suites are sailing full but it seems that it is taking Move Up to fill them - so maybe some passengers are deciding that the price is to high and waiting for Move Up to pay a more realistic price.

 

 

It seems MoveUp is a significant driver behind today's suite prices. It's put them in an ideal place. Those who are willing to pay $1,200+ a night for a Sky Suite are welcomed to it, the leftover cabins are open for MoveUps generating on average an extra of at least $2,000 in revenue for a single move from non-Retreat to Retreat. The other sub sequential moves that are triggered bring in even more revenue, they don't have to provide premium drinks or premium Wifi for the winning bids, they don't have to pay travel agencies commission on the inflated cruise fare and up until recently they didn't have to kick in the $600+ in obc. 

 

I don't pay that much attention but how many cruises today go out with any open Retreat cabins? 

[hcat]

19 hours ago, 39august said:

Or call the Retreat phone number in advance and book reservations. I did this for spa appointments for our Jan. 18  cruise. Now I don't have ti deal with it on board. I would NOT count on Retreat Concierges getting reservations for you. They certainly didn't have time for that on our Sept. EQ cruise in the Retreat. Phone is 877-738-7328

we pre book spa, salon and specialty dining online in the cruise planner for best times and prices. we.never asked the butler for very much other than ice in the afternoon and canapes...same as in reg AQ  cabin..which .no longer get canapes

[RichYak]

40 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

The problem is in Celebrity's corporate mind they believe the Butler Team is providing the same level or better service than before the change, so they see no reason to reduce the auto grats. That was what was basically told to me in the follow-up phone call I got from my email before our Apex cruise.

I completely disagree. What they know in their corporate mind is that this has lowered costs, full stop. What you were told on the call was read directly from the Miami spin script. They caller doesn't believe the spin, they just want to keep their job.

 

How may ways can they gaslight their customers? $2 cookies are nostalgic. The Retreat team is better than a butler. IVs are balcony cabins. Guests don't want gratuities in AI. Guests asked for upcharge items in the MDR. I could go on.