npcl Posted September 19, 2020 #1 Share Posted September 19, 2020 https://www.porthole.com/princess-cruises-jan-swartz-cruise-line-interview/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caribill Posted September 19, 2020 #2 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eamondzhang Posted September 19, 2020 #3 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Well that's good to hear - it means at least we're one step closer to actual resumption of cruise activities Michael 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BirdTravels Posted September 20, 2020 #4 Share Posted September 20, 2020 It's a tough sell to convince the world that you're safe to resume. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npcl Posted September 21, 2020 Author #5 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, BirdTravels said: It's a tough sell to convince the world that you're safe to resume. Fingers crossed. I would like to see the protocols more for entertainment value than the expectation that it will convince me cruising will be safe. the only way to prevent spead on a cruise ship is to keep it entirely off of the ship. Something very difficult to do with this illness and testing technology. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jondfk Posted September 21, 2020 #6 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I'm happy to see Princess (more likely CCL Corporation) submit their proposed plans. At this stage they have no choice but to start with what RCL & NCL have already submitted and proposed something additional. The problem with being last (to submit) is that you've let someone else define the minimum expectations, there's no point arguing you're going to do less than the competition have already signed up for. Still, nothing will happen until the plan is approved, and that can't happen until there is a 'plan'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suekel Posted September 21, 2020 #7 Share Posted September 21, 2020 17 hours ago, npcl said: I would like to see the protocols more for entertainment value than the expectation that it will convince me cruising will be safe. the only way to prevent spead on a cruise ship is to keep it entirely off of the ship. Something very difficult to do with this illness and testing technology. I think by January, instant testing or at home testing will become the norm. At my hospital we're testing out a new nasal swab that just goes a bit into the nose, so easy it can be done at home and dropped off at a lab. But, I think all this leads to will be testing that takes an hour or less, can be done at embarkation. Israel is making strides on this too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare azbirdmom Posted September 21, 2020 #8 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, jondfk said: I'm happy to see Princess (more likely CCL Corporation) submit their proposed plans. At this stage they have no choice but to start with what RCL & NCL have already submitted and proposed something additional. The problem with being last (to submit) is that you've let someone else define the minimum expectations, there's no point arguing you're going to do less than the competition have already signed up for. Still, nothing will happen until the plan is approved, and that can't happen until there is a 'plan'. Agree with you on starting with that submission which is here: https://www.royalcaribbeangroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Healthy-Sail-Panel_Full-Recommendations_9.21.20_FINAL.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2nJizdz_Ie17o36Pr_Dn_il71TKGQp8W50u2v1mTxmYTEUQ6ZgucH-MGA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npcl Posted September 21, 2020 Author #9 Share Posted September 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, suekel said: I think by January, instant testing or at home testing will become the norm. At my hospital we're testing out a new nasal swab that just goes a bit into the nose, so easy it can be done at home and dropped off at a lab. But, I think all this leads to will be testing that takes an hour or less, can be done at embarkation. Israel is making strides on this too. the problem with covid is the limitations in testing due to the nature of the virus. a test cannot detect the virus if it is not present in the sample. even pcr has a 20% false negative rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caribill Posted September 21, 2020 #10 Share Posted September 21, 2020 The cruise industry will implement these COVID-19 precautions: testing, masks, ventilation, more https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/09/21/cruise-covid-19-precautions-industry-mandates-testing-masks-more/5839777002/?for-guid=6e3b0242-45e5-11ea-88fe-12ccee11deff&utm_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portiemom Posted September 21, 2020 #11 Share Posted September 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, npcl said: the problem with covid is the limitations in testing due to the nature of the virus. a test cannot detect the virus if it is not present in the sample. even pcr has a 20% false negative rate. That limitation -- that the viral particles must be present -- is not exclusive to SARS-CoV-2. All PCR tests require the target to be present. All laboratory tests have false negative and false positive rates. All laboratory test results must be interpreted with the patient's full clinical picture in mind. Nothing exclusive to COVID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npcl Posted September 21, 2020 Author #12 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, portiemom said: That limitation -- that the viral particles must be present -- is not exclusive to SARS-CoV-2. All PCR tests require the target to be present. All laboratory tests have false negative and false positive rates. All laboratory test results must be interpreted with the patient's full clinical picture in mind. Nothing exclusive to COVID. no but what is unique to Covid is trying to use testing to keep people off ship. what is also somewhat unique to covid is the issues getting a detectable sample even with serious cases. According to a John Hopkins study the chance of a false negative is at best 20% at 7 days, and much worse earlier or later(as high as 80%, mostly around 40%) while other illnesses also will have false negative rates with PCR, Covid is one of the worst. Combine that with asymptomatic spread and the fact that the faster tests tend to be even less accurate than pcr you have a problem waiting to happen if you depend too much on testing. The test is better to see the amount of cases in the boarding population. based upon studies if you detect no or 1 case the odds are in your favor that the cruise is covid free, if you detect 10 let's say, the odds are pretty high that you will have cases slip through. Edited September 21, 2020 by npcl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Tak8 Posted September 21, 2020 #13 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Anything that gets us closer to safe crusing sounds good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ken the cruiser Posted September 21, 2020 #14 Share Posted September 21, 2020 We're in central Alabama. Where does one go to get a COVID test when you don't have any symptoms, but need to get a certificate within 5 days of the cruise saying you tested negative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npcl Posted September 21, 2020 Author #15 Share Posted September 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said: We're in central Alabama. Where does one go to get a COVID test when you don't have any symptoms, but need to get a certificate within 5 days of the cruise saying you tested negative? ordered by your doctor, urgent care facility or lab. problem is since it is not a medical necessity, your insurance company may not pay for it and the tests can get rather pricey since for medically required tests the insurance company is mandated to pay full price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSWP Posted September 21, 2020 #16 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) Princess will follow the RCI plan, for sure. Someone will have to pay for all this, guess who? Edited September 21, 2020 by NSWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ken the cruiser Posted September 21, 2020 #17 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, npcl said: ordered by your doctor, urgent care facility or lab. problem is since it is not a medical necessity, your insurance company may not pay for it and the tests can get rather pricey since for medically required tests the insurance company is mandated to pay full price. Thanks! Right now we don't have a b2b cruise booked until early January, and those might still get cancelled as they are each longer than 5-7 days. But I guess we'll be contacting both of those offices well in advance to see if there is any expected time delay between ordering the test and having it administered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymuxman Posted September 21, 2020 #18 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I am not too terribly interesting in cruising if I have to follow the submission that RCL and Norwegian presented. Our next cruise is a 14 day Caribbean cruise and they are suggesting nothing longer than 10 days) and if we can't get off the ship except to go on a ship arranged excursion, I will pass. I take Caribbean cruises to go shopping and have seen most of all of the sites in islands I want to see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coo359a2 Posted September 21, 2020 #19 Share Posted September 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said: We're in central Alabama. Where does one go to get a COVID test when you don't have any symptoms, but need to get a certificate within 5 days of the cruise saying you tested negative? We live in central Alabama too (jefferson county). Would be interested in what you find out. Right now our insurance requires the test to be ordered and if it isn't they don't cover the cost. Our DIL found this out when she went to a clinic and asked to be tested and then was sent the bill. DH and I did get to take a Covid test due to Gov talking with Surgeon General and White House. Since they determined our county plus Tuscaloosa to be hot spots, we got a free Covid test - done as a drive through at two locations in our county but you had to do the swabbing yourself. Someone did stand at your car window giving directions on what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ken the cruiser Posted September 21, 2020 #20 Share Posted September 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, coo359a2 said: We live in central Alabama too (jefferson county). Would be interested in what you find out. Right now our insurance requires the test to be ordered and if it isn't they don't cover the cost. Our DIL found this out when she went to a clinic and asked to be tested and then was sent the bill. DH and I did get to take a Covid test due to Gov talking with Surgeon General and White House. Since they determined our county plus Tuscaloosa to be hot spots, we got a free Covid test - done as a drive through at two locations in our county but you had to do the swabbing yourself. Someone did stand at your car window giving directions on what to do. We're in Elmore County but probably won't be checking on this for a few months, so a lot can change between now and then. That is unless the DW decides she wants to go on one of the yet to be scheduled start up cruises in the next couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyro1952 Posted September 21, 2020 #21 Share Posted September 21, 2020 6 hours ago, jondfk said: I'm happy to see Princess (more likely CCL Corporation) submit their proposed plans. At this stage they have no choice but to start with what RCL & NCL have already submitted and proposed something additional. The problem with being last (to submit) is that you've let someone else define the minimum expectations, there's no point arguing you're going to do less than the competition have already signed up for. Still, nothing will happen until the plan is approved, and that can't happen until there is a 'plan'. I would bet that all the protocols will look the same so anyone would know one cruise lines should be as safe as the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombud Posted September 22, 2020 #22 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said: We're in central Alabama. Where does one go to get a COVID test when you don't have any symptoms, but need to get a certificate within 5 days of the cruise saying you tested negative? Does CVS / Kaiser / County test in your area too? Most results take only 24-48 hrs now (or so Gov Newsom keeps saying but I don't need a test) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnocket Posted September 22, 2020 #23 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, caribill said: The cruise industry will implement these COVID-19 precautions: testing, masks, ventilation, more https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/09/21/cruise-covid-19-precautions-industry-mandates-testing-masks-more/5839777002/?for-guid=6e3b0242-45e5-11ea-88fe-12ccee11deff&utm_ Here's a more detailed summary of the RCCL protocols from their blog..... https://www.*****.com/2020/09/21/royal-caribbean-new-cruise-ship-health-protocols-include-wearing-masks-social-distancing (Sorry, I have no idea why it won't post the url properly. Perhaps Cruise Critic blocks the RCCL blog because they see it as competition? I guess you'll have to navigate to the RCCL blog yourself to see the protocol - hint, just replace the ***** with royal caribbean blog with no spaces) I'm sure people will interpret this differently. As for me, I'm a bit disappointed that they aren't more specific. For example, they state...... Cruise operators should have a thorough mobilization response plan in place prior to sailing to address the various scenarios that may require individuals with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection (guests or crew), and their close contacts, to debark from the ship. OK, but what is that "mobilization response plan"? And why the use of "Should" and not "Shall"? And this bothers me a bit.... 31. All cruise operators should upgrade the HVAC systems on their ships to, ideally, MERV 13 filters to minimize pathogen dispersal from infected guests and crew. 32. Cruise operators’ indoor air management strategies should be optimized given the constraints of ship age and ventilation type. "Ideally, MERV 13". IDEALLY? So that's not a minimum requirement - it's just a goal. "strategies should be optimized given the constraints of ship age and ventilation type." This makes it sound a bit like a "where possible" loophole. And as for face masks - here's what they say.... To prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2, cruise operators should require guests and crew to wear cloth face coverings/face masks in accordance with CDC recommendations. Good, they settle the face mask vs shield issue. Bad, the CDC guidelines are not specific to a cruise ship environment. I'd like more details. For instance, MSC requires you wear face masks while walking to your seat in the theater, but not while while seated in the theater. RCCL should publish a more detailed face mask policy. To summarize, it's a good start, but I was expecting more detail after all this time. Will they have to, for example, still develop and submit for approval their "mobilization response plan" or "indoor air management strategies" before sailing, or is it sufficient that their protocol says they have them? Edited September 22, 2020 by mnocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memoak Posted September 22, 2020 #24 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I don’t see us cruising until there is a vaccine. Safety first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caribill Posted September 22, 2020 #25 Share Posted September 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, mnocket said: Here's a more detailed summary of the RCCL protocols from their blog..... https://www.*****.com/2020/09/21/royal-caribbean-new-cruise-ship-health-protocols-include-wearing-masks-social-distancing (Sorry, I have no idea why it won't post the url properly. Perhaps Cruise Critic blocks the RCCL blog because they see it as competition? I guess you'll have to navigate to the RCCL blog yourself to see the protocol) I'm sure people will interpret this differently. As for me, I'm a bit disappointed that they aren't more specific. For example, they state...... Cruise operators should have a thorough mobilization response plan in place prior to sailing to address the various scenarios that may require individuals with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection (guests or crew), and their close contacts, to debark from the ship. OK, but what is that "mobilization response plan"? And why the use of "Should" and not "Shall"? And this bothers me a bit.... 31. All cruise operators should upgrade the HVAC systems on their ships to, ideally, MERV 13 filters to minimize pathogen dispersal from infected guests and crew. 32. Cruise operators’ indoor air management strategies should be optimized given the constraints of ship age and ventilation type. "Ideally, MERV 13". IDEALLY? So that's not a minimum requirement - it's just a goal. "strategies should be optimized given the constraints of ship age and ventilation type." This makes it sound a bit like a "where possible" loophole. And as for face masks - here's what they say.... To prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2, cruise operators should require guests and crew to wear cloth face coverings/face masks in accordance with CDC recommendations. Good, they settle the face mask vs shield issue. Bad, the CDC guidelines are not specific to a cruise ship environment. I'd like more details. For instance, MSC requires you wear face masks while walking to your seat in the theater, but not while while seated in the theater. RCCL should publish a more detailed face mask policy. To summarize, it's a good start, but I was expecting more detail after all this time. Will they have to, for example, still develop and submit for approval their "mobilization response plan" or "indoor air management strategies" before sailing, or is it sufficient that their protocol says they have them? Although there are many questions to be answered, I view this document to be worded so that different cruise lines can meet it with their individual specifics which will vary from one cruise line to another and possible from ship to ship within the same cruise line. Thus, for example, each cruise line would have its own "mobilization response plan" that would have to be acceptable, but not tied down to specific details that might be impossible for everyone (anyone?) to meet. Thus the part where it mentions CDC guidelines for masks. When the CDC changes guidelines, the cruise lines know what to switch to. If details were instead built into the plans, then any change might have to be approved again for every cruise line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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