Updated Mask Guidance from CDC

[cruisingguy007]

12 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

If there is a paper to be signed, it should include "under penalty of perjury" so that the cruise line can prosecute someone if they develop a severe case and lied about their vaccination status.  Then they can be held criminally liable.  Insurance companies have had people sign forms like that when enrolling.

 

Perjury cases aren't cut/dry and easy to prosecute. Even depositions are hard to get perjury charges under and those allow you to clear up any ambiguities and misinterpretations. You can have someone sign anything, enforcing it is another matter. The lines could, at best, ban cruisers for life like the airlines do.    

[bamaone]

2 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

I'm vaccinated and I hate wearing a mask.  If I have to wear a mask in the casino on a cruise ship I'll be pissed (ok, even more pissed than I already will be for donating to Carnival's balance sheet rescue)...  But I think common sense is to see it as the vaccine stops me from getting deathly sick if I contract the virus, but the mask prevents me from transmitting the virus if I have it to someone who might be cruising with or going home to someone high-risk.  Vaccination protects me.  Me wearing a mask protects others.

You won’t. Next 2 week it’ll change from the CDC. They just think doing it this way will make them look less stupid because of previous stupid decisions.

[TNcruising02]

18 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

I'm vaccinated and I hate wearing a mask.  If I have to wear a mask in the casino on a cruise ship I'll be pissed (ok, even more pissed than I already will be for donating to Carnival's balance sheet rescue)...  But I think common sense is to see it as the vaccine stops me from getting deathly sick if I contract the virus, but the mask prevents me from transmitting the virus if I have it to someone who might be cruising with or going home to someone high-risk.  Vaccination protects me.  Me wearing a mask protects others.

 

Wearing a mask should be a choice.  There is no way people will continue wearing them much longer.  If people want to wear them, fine.  Those of us who don't, accept the risk that maybe we will get covid.  That's ok for us to accept the risk for ourselves.

Edited May 14, 2021 by TNcruising02

[TNcruising02]

21 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Perjury cases aren't cut/dry and easy to prosecute. Even depositions are hard to get perjury charges under and those allow you to clear up any ambiguities and misinterpretations. You can have someone sign anything, enforcing it is another matter. The lines could, at best, ban cruisers for life like the airlines do.    

Well, there is only so much a company can do.  When you sign up for insurance, you are attesting to the information you are providing.  Should there be fraud in your application and you have a large claim, they could definitely go after the person.  I am not sure why everyone is so concerned about proof of vaccination.  People present their cards, sign a form attesting that the information is factual, then cruise.  If they lied and get severely sick, then the cruise lines can investigate further.  If they don't get sick, then it's not an issue.  People act like just because there are people who commit fraud, nobody should be able to do anything.

Edited May 14, 2021 by TNcruising02

[skywonder]

7 hours ago, bamaone said:

They want to save face and not open everything up immediately. Give it 2-3 weeks and all restrictions will be over. It's all being done this way so they don't look like the idiots they've proven to be.

BINGO!

[babygrljaz]

2 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

You won't. Newton's law, as the vaccinated become more free, so too do the unvaccinated. Interestingly, the vaccine cards I got for my kids are completely different than the one I got. Like completely different card size, stickers, and thickness. Makes me wonder just how many different types they used nationally. It'll be all but impossible to to verify who is and isn't vaccinated. If large spikes of unvaccinated end up getting sick/hospitalized it may be a wake up call to the vaccine hesitant and motivate folks to get protected.        

Idk how it was where you got vaccinated. But where I got mine they scanned everything. Yesterday I was looking into my pharmacy profile & both my vaccines are listed under prescriptions. There should be a record of it somewhere if they did it properly 

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Yeah, not sure what they were thinking. They should have come up with a better scheme for these cards. Maybe they figured everyone would want a vaccine and it wouldn't be a issue. I still don't think it will be a big issue. Most folks want the protection. Especially, on crowded ships and crowded ports. It's a great insurance policy.  

I think they were just in a hurry to start getting people vaccinated, and did not even consider the issue of some day people would need proof of vaccination that could not be easily forged.

[SNJCruisers]

10 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

 

Wearing a mask should be a choice.  There is no way people will continue wearing them much longer.  If people want to wear them, fine.  Those of us who don't, accept the risk that maybe we will get covid.  That's ok for us to accept the risk for ourselves.

It's OK for those who do not want to get the jab to accept the risk of Covid, why should it be any different for those who are vaccinated to accept the risk not to wear a mask?

[ctkathchick]

9 hours ago, babygrljaz said:

Idk how it was where you got vaccinated. But where I got mine they scanned everything. Yesterday I was looking into my pharmacy profile & both my vaccines are listed under prescriptions. There should be a record of it somewhere if they did it properly 

I had my shots at a CVS in Ct. The person filling out my card just filled in the date and batch number and handed it back to me. I asked about whether to have it laminated or not and he said do whatever you want. I have ordered the plastic sleeve to put my card in and also took a picture with my phone. I take no medications so there would be no file to add to.

 

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

21 minutes ago, jperry2011 said:

Vaccination protects me the mask doesn't do anything. If someone else needs protected then they can get vaccinated and wear a mask.

 

"My mask protects others" lol that was nothing more than a slogan to con people into believing whatever garbage the CDC and Fauci would come up with and change from day to day.

 

 

With regard to unvaccinated individuals, and while there's not any guarantee (with anything), masks nonetheless do offer some level of protection.

 

Tom

[ProgRockCruiser]

3 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

masks nonetheless do offer some level of protection

Unfortunately there are a number of folks who disagree, and will trot out the same tired "examples".

 

As far as I am concerned, the people most hurt by that philosophy from this point forward are the ones who believe it, so...

[Moviela]

Starting tomorrow I will only put on two socks in the morning and the one for my face will be retired along with my baseball mitt, as items I will never use again.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

5 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

...

 

As far as I am concerned, the people most hurt by that philosophy from this point forward are the ones who believe it, so...

 

Yep - let the chips fall.

[FiremedicMike151]

Wow, some people are doubling down despite the updates from the CDC..

 

remarkable.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by FiremedicMike151

[jperry2011]

10 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

With regard to unvaccinated individuals, and while there's not any guarantee (with anything), masks nonetheless do offer some level of protection.

 

Tom

The CDC put out a statement last month that clearly said they are "unaware of any individual studies showing masks provide protection against transmitting covid 19"

[TNcruising02]

13 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

With regard to unvaccinated individuals, and while there's not any guarantee (with anything), masks nonetheless do offer some level of protection.

 

Tom

By all means, keep wearing yours.  Protecting ourselves should be our choice, at this point, since there is a vaccine.  Those who want to keep "protecting others" should continue to wear their masks.  Those of us who are willing to take risks with catching a disease should be free to remove the masks.  People can wear masks for the rest of their lives if they choose to.  Thankfully, we live in a country where we get to decide the risks we are willing to take.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

2 minutes ago, jperry2011 said:

The CDC put out a statement last month that clearly said they are "unaware of any individual studies showing masks provide protection against transmitting covid 19"

 

Interesting. I just located THIS CDC article (updated 1 week ago) which seems to indicate otherwise. 

 

In summary:

Conclusions

Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2. The prevention benefit of masking is derived from the combination of source control and wearer protection for the mask wearer. The relationship between source control and wearer protection is likely complementary and possibly synergistic¹⁴, so that individual benefit increases with increasing community mask use. Further research is needed to expand the evidence base for the protective effect of cloth masks and in particular to identify the combinations of materials that maximize both their blocking and filtering effectiveness, as well as fit, comfort, durability, and consumer appeal. Mask use has been found to be safe and is not associated with clinically significant impacts on respiration or gas exchange. Adopting universal masking policies can help avert future lockdowns, especially if combined with other non-pharmaceutical interventions such as social distancing, hand hygiene, and adequate ventilation.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

By all means, keep wearing yours.  Protecting ourselves should be our choice, at this point, since there is a vaccine.  Those who want to keep "protecting others" should continue to wear their masks.  Those of us who are willing to take risks with catching a disease should be free to remove the masks.  People can wear masks for the rest of their lives if they choose to.  Thankfully, we live in a country where we get to decide the risks we are willing to take.

 

Actually, I'm vaccinated, so I'm good to go (without it)!!

 

Tom

[TNcruising02]

2 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Actually, I'm vaccinated, so I'm good to go (without it)!!

 

Tom

And yet, you said that you wear one to protect others.  So, I guess you will keep wearing one,.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

2 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

And yet, you said that you wear one to protect others.  So, I guess you will keep wearing one,.

 

I believe I said "with regard to unvaccinated individuals" (which I am not).

 

[asalligo]

18 hours ago, bamaone said:

They want to save face and not open everything up immediately. Give it 2-3 weeks and all restrictions will be over. It's all being done this way so they don't look like the idiots they've proven to be.

This! May take more than a few weeks, but let them have their mask mandate at first and then it will be all back to normal. 

[crewsweeper]

I see people  driving cars alone with masks on.  I see people trying to walk outside with no one even 30 feet away wearing masks.  All this is nonsense. 

 

Contract tracing of COVID has found most contagion coming from being inside poorly ventilated buildings, like your home, where you are in close contact with others for more than 10 minutes.  Buildings like hospitals that have improved their ventilation systems and added ultraviolet lighting don't experience contagion in as great of numbers.

 

Masks, especially cloth masks, do get wet from breath and lose their efficacy.  Masks can be very beneficial for you if you have a cold or flu or COVID symptoms.  But may not be as beneficial if you do not, especially if your masks are damp.

 

I'm vaccinated but will carry a mask with me and if places of business ask people to wear a mask I will.  

 

For cruise ships, the best thing to do is to keep sanitizing everything and using gloves in buffets.  Not that COVID sticks around for a while (disappears fairly rapidly) but it will help stem the outbreaks or NORO and flu and gastronomical  illnesses.

[jperry2011]

12 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Interesting. I just located THIS CDC article (updated 1 week ago) which seems to indicate otherwise. 

 

In summary:

Conclusions

Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2. The prevention benefit of masking is derived from the combination of source control and wearer protection for the mask wearer. The relationship between source control and wearer protection is likely complementary and possibly synergistic¹⁴, so that individual benefit increases with increasing community mask use. Further research is needed to expand the evidence base for the protective effect of cloth masks and in particular to identify the combinations of materials that maximize both their blocking and filtering effectiveness, as well as fit, comfort, durability, and consumer appeal. Mask use has been found to be safe and is not associated with clinically significant impacts on respiration or gas exchange. Adopting universal masking policies can help avert future lockdowns, especially if combined with other non-pharmaceutical interventions such as social distancing, hand hygiene, and adequate ventilation.

"Further research is needed to expand the evidence base for the protective effect of cloth masks and in particular to identify the combinations of materials that maximize both their blocking and filtering effectiveness, as well as fit, comfort, durability, and consumer appeal."

 

Right from your own conclusion.

Further research is needed to expand the evidence base.

 

 

So in conclusion to your conclusion...

In April the CDC said they have no evidence and last week they said we have minimal evidence but need more research to be done.. meanwhile mask manufacturers are making big money for everyone to wear around a face diaper with zero to minimal evidence it does anything. Nice.

 

[ProgRockCruiser]

17 minutes ago, jperry2011 said:

The CDC put out a statement last month that clearly said they are "unaware of any individual studies showing masks provide protection against transmitting covid 19"

[CITATION NEEDED]

 

Especially in light of the citation that directly contradicts your claim.

 

19 minutes ago, FiremedicMike151 said:

Wow, some people are doubling down despite the updates from the CDC..

 

remarkable.

Um, no, simply reminding that the CDC still recommends/requires/whatever masks for the unvaccinated.

 

AFAIK, the CDC has not changed their stance on masks for the unvaccinated.

 

And when it does change, it will be because there are conditions that make it sensible, which will probably be the attainment of low rates of transmission due to higher rates of vaccinations and other "herd-immunity-like" conditions.  They will change the guidance to something like "while the unvaccinated do not need to wear masks any longer as a form of protection specifically against transmission of the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, we still recommend that people who feel ill, especially those with a respiratory disease, to wear a mask to protect others."

[Joebucks]

12 hours ago, bamaone said:

Why does anybody care if someone is not vaccinated? It has nothing to do with those that are vaccinated. If you’re vaccinated you’re good. You’re safe. You’re protected. You won’t get sick and die. Those who choose not to get vaccinated know the possible consequences and accept those consequences. It should not even be a discussion. It won’t affect anyone else’s  vacation in any way. This thing is ending. Let’s complain chair hogs. 

 

Because we have effectively weaponized finger pointing politics. I'm obese because of someone else. I'm depressed because of someone else. I'm poor because of someone else. Now, I'm sick because of someone else. This kind of policy is very popular because taking accountability requires work and discipline. It's much easier to accept that you are the victim and need protection. 

 

As long as the vaccine is readily available to all who want it, there is zero reason to continue masking and forcing vaccines. Period. If only about 1% of society was at risk for COVID death, those 1% (and more) can now get the vaccine. There is honestly no reason to continue this nonsense.