New CEO of Celebrity Interesting but happy they stay within for promotions.

[Jeremiah1212]

1 minute ago, Honolulu Blue said:

You're right, and thank you for the clarification.  Two points before I leave this:

 

1. Three of Celebrity's ships are expedition ships, which are far smaller than any other ship that they or Princess have.  Princess doesn't have any expedition ships.
2. Princess has a ship scheduled to start cruising in 2024 and another one in 2025.  I don't know Celebrity's new build schedule other than the Ascent.

 

Edge #5 (Vertex or Excel...hopefully not Excel) is slated for sometime in 2025. Nothing after that. However, with a new CEO that has a lot of involvement in product development, the next series may not be that far away. The first Solstice ship was laid in March 2007, Edge was laid in November 2016 so the 10ish year rotation (maybe add some time for financial recovery) is potentially not all that far off. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

17 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

I'll agree and disagree.  Innovation always takes a chance, but there was no need to eliminate all of the non-suite balcony cabins without understanding how many people use their balconies.  I'll also agree that IV cabins may be better for people that don't spend a lot of time on the balconies.  But the IV's are simply a big miss for anyone that enjoys spending a lot of time on the balcony.  Actually, I like the concept as an alternative to an ocean view cabin, I think you could charge a significant price increase over ocean view cabins.  But there was simply no need to eliminate all of the traditional balcony cabins.  MSC and Royal understood that, it's too bad Celebrity didn't.  Someone at Celebrity needs to be held accountable for that decision and LLP was the person at the top.

 

100% agree...If X wants to keep the IVs, fine, yet for every IV cabin there should be a traditional balcony.  We can pretty safe to say the Eden space and magic carpet were a miss.

 

For the Eden, the original "whimsical" concept was to have an ongoing show all evening, you could pop in at anytime and stay for 15mins or 3 hours.  Now more often than not they just have musicians play in Eden but the musicians could (and do) play anywhere on the ship

 

Magic carpet is a gimmick that fixes a tender problem that never existed.  It makes tendering slightly easier, but at what costs?  It creates several obstructed viewed staterooms, had a lot of R&D costs and requires ongoing maintenance, surely X is passing those costs onto its passengers

 

All and all, we'll see with the next class of ships if X continues with the magic carpet, Eden and traditional balcony % vs IV %

[paulh84]

Based on the new President's prior roles with RGC I would put money on anything coming out under her new leadership will not resemble anything of a stale 1990's ship design. 

 

"Hodges Bethge is an exemplary leader with a long history of success at the company. Previously, she was senior vice president of product development for Royal Caribbean International, and led the teams conceptualizing their groundbreaking ships, private island destinations, and new experiences introduced throughout the award-winning fleet, including the first island in Royal Caribbean's Perfect Day Island Collection – Perfect Day at CocoCay."

[NutsAboutGolf]

24 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

Based on the new President's prior roles with RGC I would put money on anything coming out under her new leadership will not resemble anything of a stale 1990's ship design. 

 

"Hodges Bethge is an exemplary leader with a long history of success at the company. Previously, she was senior vice president of product development for Royal Caribbean International, and led the teams conceptualizing their groundbreaking ships, private island destinations, and new experiences introduced throughout the award-winning fleet, including the first island in Royal Caribbean's Perfect Day Island Collection – Perfect Day at CocoCay."

 

The rhetorical question is how much money will RCG give X to play with for product development?  I for one would love some new experiences and have always been baffled to why X never set up a golf simulators

[jelayne]

16 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

The rhetorical question is how much money will RCG give X to play with for product development?  I for one would love some new experiences and have always been baffled to why X never set up a golf simulators

I think it was Carnival that had a golf simulator  one or 2 of their ships.  They also had a golf pro who gave lesions and did small group excursions to play golf.  We played a round with him in Mexico.    We did 3 or 4 cruises and on only one cruise did the simulator work.  That sailing it was out of service by day 5.  Simulators are probably more reliable now.   
 

[omeinv]

35 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

The rhetorical question is how much money will RCG give X to play with for product development?  I for one would love some new experiences and have always been baffled to why X never set up a golf simulators

They had golf simulators on the Century class ships.  They flopped miserably.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

[dlh015]

3 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

Put another way, if high quality corporate bonds were a BMW M8, Royal's bonds would be a Ford Pinto and Carnival's bonds would be an AMC Gremlin.

Nicely put...both funny *and* true...

[bEwAbG]

34 minutes ago, jelayne said:

...They also had a golf pro who gave lesions ...

 

There are treatments for that.  

[bikerunner]

1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

The rhetorical question is how much money will RCG give X to play with for product development?  I for one would love some new experiences and have always been baffled to why X never set up a golf simulators

They had them on the Mercury class ships, was never used the times I was on the ships.  

[bEwAbG]

I don't think announcing her retirement is something more than what is being said.  A huge corporation needs to have succession planning & planned transitions.  This allows her to finish out a year in reserve in case something goes south with the new person.  Also allows her to be available for consult as they make the transition.  Maybe earlier than she wanted but maybe not.  I'm sure a lot of it is being driven by the corporate parent and changes in that leadership hierarchy.  If I made a few million a year for several years and had to navigate everything she had to navigate the last few years, I'd be leaving as soon as I could get out the door to enjoy my money in peace and quiet.

[drakes2]

4 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

I'll agree and disagree.  Innovation always takes a chance, but there was no need to eliminate all of the non-suite balcony cabins without understanding how many people use their balconies.  I'll also agree that IV cabins may be better for people that don't spend a lot of time on the balconies.  But the IV's are simply a big miss for anyone that enjoys spending a lot of time on the balcony.  Actually, I like the concept as an alternative to an ocean view cabin, I think you could charge a significant price increase over ocean view cabins.  But there was simply no need to eliminate all of the traditional balcony cabins.  MSC and Royal understood that, it's too bad Celebrity didn't.  Someone at Celebrity needs to be held accountable for that decision and LLP was the person at the top.

I actually downgraded from an IV to an inside cabin (same square footage minus sitting area) on my upcoming 15 night TA.  Cost per day just wasn't worth it.  If I want to look out I can just walk up to one of the decks. 

[Ipeeinthepools]

8 minutes ago, drakes2 said:

I actually downgraded from an IV to an inside cabin (same square footage minus sitting area) on my upcoming 15 night TA.  Cost per day just wasn't worth it.  If I want to look out I can just walk up to one of the decks. 

 

And you won't need to worry about the AC shutting off.

[Honolulu Blue]

1 hour ago, bEwAbG said:

If I made a few million a year for several years and had to navigate everything she had to navigate the last few years, I'd be leaving as soon as I could get out the door to enjoy my money in peace and quiet.

Richard and Arnold agree with you.  FDR and LLP are joining their party sooner or later.  

[Bill Miller]

I'm a little late to this topic but I'm happy to announce the coveted Lobster on a Stick trophy for the First mention of Lobsters in a post goes to..............

NutsAboutGolf, post #18.  Well done Sir.

[Mickey S]

I have another take on her leaving.

 

 It appears we are headed for a steep economic slowdown with a lower stock market.

She sees it coming.Get out youngish when things are looking good, but a recession  and lower market  brings lower prices and lower occupancy.

 

Its not just cruise lines with high debt levels, our banks are highly leveraged . Everybody its tightening as a precaution

Commercial real estate-downtown offices, 50% refi over the next 2 years.

At higher rates iff available

 

You get the picture.

 

I can tell you the last 4 years in most businesses have been killers.

 

 

 

 

[mahdnc]

3 hours ago, bikerunner said:

They had them on the Mercury class ships, was never used the times I was on the ships.  

 

Yes, they were short lived and quickly replaced.

[NutsAboutGolf]

  

15 minutes ago, Mickey S said:

I have another take on her leaving.

 

 It appears we are headed for a steep economic slowdown with a lower stock market.

She sees it coming.Get out youngish when things are looking good, but a recession  and lower market  brings lower prices and lower occupancy.

 

Its not just cruise lines with high debt levels, our banks are highly leveraged . Everybody its tightening as a precaution

Commercial real estate-downtown offices, 50% refi over the next 2 years.

At higher rates iff available

 

You get the picture.

 

I can tell you the last 4 years in most businesses have been killers.

 

 

 

 

 

Its all just speculation until if and when more info is released/leaked but I don't see a CEO retiring due to predicting a economic slowdown as she'd still make Millions annually in compensation.  If this all wasn't organic where LLP decided she wants to retire, the most likely scenario would be that the new CEO, Laura, had another hot offer on the table from a competing cruise line and X decided to get aggressive to keep her

Edited April 7, 2023 by NutsAboutGolf

[Canuker]

Changes at the top of an expansive corporate pyramid usually result in one of two extremes in the short term, as the new broom gets their feet under the desk:

1. Little, if anything.

2. Radical change.

The latter is typical of someone moving into the position from outside (think Musk); the former, as in this case is more typical of someone recruited from within who has a history with the business and knows what works and what doesn't.

In terms of background, these two are from the same mould - marketing; so like for like. This works for a company like Celebrity / RCG, as long as they don't fail to listen to the accountant over their shoulder.

My bottom line: no material  changes originating from the corner office - for a year at least.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Canuker

[terrydtx]

6 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

I don't know Celebrity's new build schedule other than the Ascent.

Actually Celebrity has a 5th E Class ships scheduled to join the ill-conceived IV fleet in 2025. The current CEO was in charge when this new concept was designed and built, which I think will be the ultimate downfall of celebrity. Celebrity is stuck with the concept for the next 15-20 years. I hate the IV cabins, did one and was done with them, I love the E Class ships but will ONLY book a suite to get a real balcony, not a window that opens. Now with current high pricing for Sky Suites on E Class ships we are moving on the competitors. As, I have said many times if it was such a good idea why hasn't one competitor copied them?

[NutsAboutGolf]

7 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

Actually Celebrity has a 5th E Class ships scheduled to join the ill-conceived IV fleet in 2025. The current CEO was in charge when this new concept was designed and built, which I think will be the ultimate downfall of celebrity. Celebrity is stuck with the concept for the next 15-20 years. I hate the IV cabins, did one and was done with them, I love the E Class ships but will ONLY book a suite to get a real balcony, not a window that opens. Now with current high pricing for Sky Suites on E Class ships we are moving on the competitors. As, I have said many times if it was such a good idea why hasn't one competitor copied them?

 

IVs do exist on RCI and MSC but with those lines there's still plenty of traditional balconies to book.  As I stated before, the Magic carpet and the Eden weren't copied and were a complete waste of $$$ and space.  With the Eden, convert some of the space into a comedy club and a piano bar

[terrydtx]

14 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

IVs do exist on RCI and MSC but with those lines there's still plenty of traditional balconies to book.  As I stated before, the Magic carpet and the Eden weren't copied and were a complete waste of $$$ and space.  With the Eden, convert some of the space into a comedy club and a piano bar

If Celebrity had only made one deck with IV cabins, they would have been better off, for some who love them and those like me who hate them, by providing a choice for both camps. Without ever testing the concept, Celebrity committed to 5 of these ships. and the current CEO is responsible for that decision. The magic carpet is another poorly conceived idea as you stated.

[Baron Barracuda]

She may be calling this a glide path to retirement but from the SEC filing it seems likely she was forced out.  Last year she made $820k in base salary and was eligible for a 130% performance bonus (don't know if she qualified).  In her new role her base pay is down to $360K.  You don't cut a valued executives pay in half just before retirement.  The filing also speaks to her being eligible for severance. which shouldn't come into play in a voluntary separation.  Maybe she is just looking to retire or maybe she was a Richard Fain appointee and Jason Liberty wants to install his own team.  Would be nice if this was Liberty responding to all the recent X complaints but that's likely too much to hope for.

 

Note that RCL has never broken out X's financials so we have no idea how they are performing.  Also, despite having the title of president she is really just a division manager, responsible for less than 1/3 of RCL's total berths and shouldn't be compared with Fain, Donald and Del Rio.  She doesn't even sit on the RCL board.  

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, Canuker said:

Changes at the top of an expansive corporate pyramid usually result in one of two extremes in the short term, as the new broom gets their feet under the desk:

1. Little, if anything.

2. Radical change.

The latter is typical of someone moving into the position from outside (think Musk); the former, as in this case is more typical of someone recruited from within who has a history with the business and knows what works and what doesn't.

In terms of background, these two are from the same mould - marketing; so like for like. This works for a company like Celebrity / RCG, as long as they don't fail to listen to the accountant over their shoulder.

My bottom line: no material  changes originating from the corner office - for a year at least.

|You're on the money with option #1.

[Mickey S]

1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

  

 

Its all just speculation until if and when more info is released/leaked but I don't see a CEO retiring due to predicting a economic slowdown as she'd still make Millions annually in compensation.  If this all wasn't organic where LLP decided she wants to retire, the most likely scenario would be that the new CEO, Laura, had another hot offer on the table from a competing cruise line and X decided to get aggressive to keep her

I wil take my bet that CEO's /Presidentsw do retire when the overall outlook is not so good.

 

You put away more than you will need,you have a great retirement plan, and you look at whats happening globally for economy, where energy us getting  expensive as it, when the switch to non fossile fuels will be  very very expensive, if doable, and other storms (environmentalists not keen on cruising)  and travel in general. and you say screw it, I am 65, I have put in my time, the last thing I want  is to have to navigate thru,  pun intended,  another  major econ downturn when we have not recovered from the pandemic downturn.

 

I wil also opine that LLP got a bit over her ski's in managing things, although whats happened is a feat for a super person. Just about everyting possible went wrong the last  3 years.

And there is a big difference in sailing in calm waters than a ferocious storm. IT is a huge test of skills.

 

and perhaps she could not cover everything.

 

There is not enough money out there for me to have been in that positiion.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Mickey S

[Mickey S]

Jack Welsh at GE had 3 preotges viyng for CEO when Welsh retired.

 

Jim McNerney, former Boeing chairman and CEO, joined GE in 1982 and spent 19 years at the U.S. conglomerate, holding positions including CEO of GE aircraft engines and GE lighting. Prior to joining Boeing in 2005, McNerney was CEO of Post-it notes maker 3M Co

 

McNerney was not successful at 3M and made the decision on 737max to save 50 billion by not designing and building a new fuseloge.

 

Bob Nardelli went to Home Depot and messed it up but received a 240 million severance package

 

Jeff Immelt won the CEO derby and slowly screwed up GE-

 

3 supossedly superstars, messed up fine companies.

 

Why--perhaps they were not great superstars.

Perhaps they were great , really great, in supporting roles.

 

Its one thing to maintain a good company without messing it up,  its another thing to come in and fix things, and another thing to have an outstanding company like X apparently wss pre2010ish and slowly deteiorated and then tries to make a big splash with a controversial E class when the stuff hit the fan early 2020 when huge riskly committments were made--not just E class but Icon class too-mega ships mega costs.

 

IMHO-there is more but we have all had enough on this subject,  I think. Besides, its time to head out for dinner.