Future booked cruises with All Included? Tips no longer included.

[Jeremiah1212]

1 hour ago, Cap_D said:

Nothing to suggest they are listening and making actual improvements or even communications (aside from the call).     

 

The shift on vaping was definitely a result of feedback. So was the cookie drama. I think they were flabbergasted by the outrage over a $2 optional cookie. No one screams about the price of gelato, the drinks not covered by a package, the charge for deli sandwiches from Le Grand Bistro (which are delicious) but something about a $2 cookie really caused distress for some people. Structural pricing changes are different since those are undoubtedly coming from higher up the ladder and carry significantly more weight (like dollars in the tens of million). 

 

37 minutes ago, RLM77 said:

I find it interesting that new-to-cruise and new-to-brand bookings have apparently increased.  I wonder if that is because they have managed to chase away some previously loyal customers?  As an example we are Elite+ but have put X on long-term hiatus after some really terrible food in AQ.  I wonder if some of the other X veterans have done the same?

Rich

 

Sheer passenger volume. In 2002 there were approximately 8.6 million cruise passengers globally. In 2019 that was 29.7 million. The projection for 2027 is 39.5 million. And to put it bluntly the amount of able to cruise loyalists that were cruising Celebrity 25-30 years ago are no longer around. That base is shrinking. There has definitely been some attrition as people move to other lines but that is to be expected.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Jeremiah1212

[RLM77]

3 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

The shift on vaping was definitely a result of feedback. So was the cookie drama. I think they were flabbergasted by the outrage over a $2 optional cookie. No one screams about the price of gelato, the drinks not covered by a package, the charge for deli sandwiches from Le Grand Bistro (which are delicious) but something about a $2 cookie really caused distress for some people. Structural pricing changes are different since those are undoubtedly coming from higher up the ladder and carry significantly more weight (like dollars in the tens of million). 

 

 

Sheer passenger volume. In 2002 there were approximately 8.6 million cruise passengers globally. In 2019 that was 29.7 million. The projection for 2027 is 39.5 million. And to put it bluntly the amount of able to cruise loyalists that were cruising Celebrity 25-30 are no longer around. That base is shrinking. There has definitely been some attrition as people move to other lines but that is to be expected.

No argument with anything here - you obviously know this business inside and out.  The only item I would take exception to is the “25-30 [years].”  Celebrity offered a product that was at least passable (and sometimes better than that) right up to 2019.  It wasn’t up to the standard once set on Horizon or Zenith, but it held its own with the rest of the industry.  No longer, IMHO.

 

All that said, if we’re ever on a ship together I’d be glad to buy you a drink.

Rich

[MamaFej]

I imagine that, if Celebrity had instead decided to include a hot, fresh from the oven cookie with gelato purchase, they would end up selling a lot more gelato, and would not have created the drama. It could have been perceived as an addition, not another cut.

 

- - - - - - -

 

Regarding New To Cruise/New to Brand cruisers, I hope that the booking information is very clear that gratuities will be added to the folio. We here all know to budget for gratuities (and most, it seems, would like them baked into the initial fare). New cruisers might not know. If they don't find out about auto gratuities until onboard, I forsee plenty of issues, including many of these new cruisers demanding to have gratuities removed. As with many businesses, folks at the top make decisions and folks down the line have to deal with the consequences. 

[bikerunner]

13 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

The shift on vaping was definitely a result of feedback. So was the cookie drama. I think they were flabbergasted by the outrage over a $2 optional cookie. No one screams about the price of gelato, the drinks not covered by a package, the charge for deli sandwiches from Le Grand Bistro (which are delicious) but something about a $2 cookie really caused distress for some people. Structural pricing changes are different since those are undoubtedly coming from higher up the ladder and carry significantly more weight (like dollars in the tens of million). 

 

My thinking on this, is yes they are booking great right now.  The move to more Caribbean is to maximize this in the short term.  My thoughts are in long run this will hurt them a lot.  People will just start seeing them as, many do now, as just another mainstream line but at the higher end.  There is nothing differentiating them in the market place at this point, besides maybe the Edge ships which are a whole different discussion overall.  Where is Celebrity going with this to stand out.  I will probably/sigh going to be observing for my first few days on my next sailing just the overall ship and operations, slipping back into my Hospitality background when I did secret shops for properties.  Tho I know by day 3 and many glasses of wine later I will just save it to the post cruise survey stuff.  

[Georgia_Peaches]

23 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

but something about a $2 cookie really caused distress for some people.

I wasn't distressed about $2 plus gratuity cookiegate.  I was annoyed by the reports that the for free cookies had been removed from al bacio, presumably steering those who needed a cookie fix over to the gelato bar to purchase one.  Perhaps if this cookie charge had been an isolated change instead of one of many all at once, there would have been less outcry.  At any rate, I'm glad they listened.

[markeb]

1 hour ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

I wasn't distressed about $2 plus gratuity cookiegate.  I was annoyed by the reports that the for free cookies had been removed from al bacio, presumably steering those who needed a cookie fix over to the gelato bar to purchase one.  Perhaps if this cookie charge had been an isolated change instead of one of many all at once, there would have been less outcry.  At any rate, I'm glad they listened.

 

I thought this was a boneheaded play to begin with, but I would really be surprised if there was a Miami-based conspiracy to remove the Al Bacio cookies. My suspicion is they did a crappy job of communicating intent to their own people and some of them took the (incorrect) initiative to try to encourage sales with the (not incorrect) thought that who would buy cookies when they're free right over there?

 

The intent was "apparently" to offer something different for a fee. They already do that with the gelato, so that makes sense so far on some level. I don't remember what the gelato sells for, but I'm pretty sure it's more than $2. Counterintuitive but a $2 cookie isn't "special". A $5 cookie might have been; some people would buy it just to see if was worth $5. I doubt anyone was doing that for a $2 cookie. But again, it was in the middle of a whole bunch of changes that were extremely unpopular with their frequent cruisers (although pretty much unknown to new Celebrity cruisers) which pretty much doomed the entire idea.

[Georgia_Peaches]

17 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

I thought this was a boneheaded play to begin with, but I would really be surprised if there was a Miami-based conspiracy to remove the Al Bacio cookies. My suspicion is they did a crappy job of communicating intent to their own people and some of them took the (incorrect) initiative to try to encourage sales with the (not incorrect) thought that who would buy cookies when they're free right over there?

 

The intent was "apparently" to offer something different for a fee. They already do that with the gelato, so that makes sense so far on some level. I don't remember what the gelato sells for, but I'm pretty sure it's more than $2. Counterintuitive but a $2 cookie isn't "special". A $5 cookie might have been; some people would buy it just to see if was worth $5. I doubt anyone was doing that for a $2 cookie. But again, it was in the middle of a whole bunch of changes that were extremely unpopular with their frequent cruisers (although pretty much unknown to new Celebrity cruisers) which pretty much doomed the entire idea.

Agree with you!  Celebrity failed in the execution.  A $5 cookie that is big and different from the rest and sharable with DH is something I would have considered buying to go along with my scoop of gelato.  It goes back to timing, execution, and communication.  You are so right about the possibility of some over zealous staff thinking they should remove the for free cookies to push people toward the for fee cookies instead.  The smell of baking cookies alone would have been enough to draw attention and sales.

 

I remember once on a RCl cruise we were going to see a movie in the theater on a sea day.  They popped popcorn outside the entrance and sold to people as they entered the theater.  The smell of fresh popcorn drew us in and yes, we each bought a bag to eat while watching the movie.  These things can be done...maybe they should just consult with us experts here on CC next time 😁.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Georgia_Peaches

[Wolf 8]

This morning I booked a C1 cabin on the Beyond 12/11/23 11 day sailing with, "All Included" drinks, WiFi and gratuities. Tonight I saw this thread and my BP spiked until I confirmed the gratuities change does not apply to me. . . YET.

 

No, I am not thrilled with Celebrity's sharply higher prices and cost cutting.  But they are trying to stay afloat with crushing debt and INFLATION.  Value investors know RCL has negative free cash flow and a deathbed Quick Ratio courtesy of the pandemic. 

 

I'm just grateful Celebrity is still afloat and we are still afloat to enjoy it.  Glass half full or half empty?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hcat]

we'd enjoy free salted warm pretzels in the EDEN cafe.. how much could that set them back?

Edited August 31, 2023 by hcat

[bnurick]

I disagree regarding perma-bull future cruising numbers. When everyone sees things one way it often becomes the other. I am not a TA making commissions or a shill for the X brand. Transparency has been lacking and hopefully there has been a wakeup call as X refinances it’s debt and realizes it needs to find a balance between loyalty cruisers and new cruisers.

[doghog]

1 hour ago, Wolf 8 said:

This morning I booked a C1 cabin on the Beyond 12/11/23 11 day sailing with, "All Included" drinks, WiFi and gratuities. Tonight I saw this thread and my BP spiked until I confirmed the gratuities change does not apply to me. . . YET.

 

No, I am not thrilled with Celebrity's sharply higher prices and cost cutting.  But they are trying to stay afloat with crushing debt and INFLATION.  Value investors know RCL has negative free cash flow and a deathbed Quick Ratio courtesy of the pandemic. 

 

I'm just grateful Celebrity is still afloat and we are still afloat to enjoy it.  Glass half full or half empty?

 

The AI you purchased will not change.

 

Our glasses are always full and wearing rose colored glasses. 🍷😍

[WonderMan3]

Thank you for posting this. Haven't been keeping up with this board for a few months and it's good to see all these changes listed. It reaffirms our decision not to have any Celebrity cruises booked at this time and now seeing this I'm guessing possibly ever again. So sad. It was a great run.

[Bullswood]

From the reported Celebrity explanation in post #3

 "All Included package pricing was modified to align with the evolving needs of our guests and offer added flexibility when booking."

I have no idea what "evolving needs" means but in any event, this has no mention of a cost saving or simultaneous price rise. So if this statement is not to be regarded as deceptive (or arguably a downright lie) one would expect the price of the AI supplement to be reduced from Oct 4 so that price of current AI benefit = price of reduced AI benefit+tips.

If not and the explanation is proved to be incorrect, does Celebrity really think its average customer (or TA) is that dumb and why not just tell the truth?

[RichYak]

4 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

I was annoyed by the reports that the for free cookies had been removed from al bacio

I will take this a step further. I was annoyed by the reports that the for free cookies had been removed while at the same time, Celebrity was falsely claiming that this wasn't the case.

[RichYak]

13 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

Thank you for posting this. Haven't been keeping up with this board for a few months and it's good to see all these changes listed. It reaffirms our decision not to have any Celebrity cruises booked at this time and now seeing this I'm guessing possibly ever again. So sad. It was a great run.

Sad indeed.

[MamaFej]

17 minutes ago, Bullswood said:

From the reported Celebrity explanation in post #3

 "All Included package pricing was modified to align with the evolving needs of our guests and offer added flexibility when booking."

I have no idea what "evolving needs" means but in any event, this has no mention of a cost saving or simultaneous price rise. So if this statement is not to be regarded as deceptive (or arguably a downright lie) one would expect the price of the AI supplement to be reduced from Oct 4 so that price of current AI benefit = price of reduced AI benefit+tips.

If not and the explanation is proved to be incorrect, does Celebrity really think its average customer (or TA) is that dumb and why not just tell the truth?

I'll say it again: Celebrity may or may not think we are dumb, but they certainly hope we are. 

[terrydtx]

3 minutes ago, MamaFej said:

I'll say it again: Celebrity may or may not think we are dumb, but they certainly hope we are. 

Its more that they hope we never remove our rose colored Celebrity cheerleader blinders. Mine came off last month with the butlers change for Sky Suites. 

[DaKahuna]

8 hours ago, terrydtx said:

I can see Celebrity morphing into a parallel cruise line to RC with similar amenities, itineraries and costs similar to Princess and HAL. Celebrity is already adding more Florida home ports and 7 day Carribean cruises like RC.

What I have been seeing in the barrage of emails from Celebrity lately are a lot of five day cruises in addition to the 7 day cruises you mentioned.  
 

[Robert de Beaumont]

3 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

Its more that they hope we never remove our rose colored Celebrity cheerleader blinders. Mine came off last month with the butlers change for Sky Suites. 

Same here. 

[Gracie115]

9 hours ago, Cruise till you drop said:

I’m a doubter that this will ever happen as you have brand identity and loyalty.  For example, If you turn Celebrity into RC, is the resulting move that Celebrity cruisers switch over to Princess, NCL or HAL ?

 

 

 

Ah...... "ROYAL CELEBRITY"...... has a nice ring to it.........not😨😱

[bnurick]

1 hour ago, RichYak said:

I will take this a step further. I was annoyed by the reports that the for free cookies had been removed while at the same time, Celebrity was falsely claiming that this wasn't the case.

100%. Half-Truths are not transparency; they need to utilize focus groups before making decisions going forward. Trust rebuilding with X community is current status. Buyer beware. A la carte mode.

[goofysmom99]

You know the Lawn Club Grill warm cookie with gelato dessert?  They should have considered peddlling those at the gelato bar.  Bet there'd be a line of folks wanting to shell out $10 or more!  I know, I shouldn't give anyone at X ideas, but so many posters on here rave about that one dessert a whole lot.  

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 hour ago, WonderMan3 said:

Thank you for posting this. Haven't been keeping up with this board for a few months and it's good to see all these changes listed. It reaffirms our decision not to have any Celebrity cruises booked at this time and now seeing this I'm guessing possibly ever again. So sad. It was a great run.

Wondered where you went Wonderman!  Hope your cruising adventures continue to take you far and wide. I’ve missed your live reports. 

[kwokpot]

18 minutes ago, goofysmom99 said:

You know the Lawn Club Grill warm cookie with gelato dessert?  They should have considered peddlling those at the gelato bar.  Bet there'd be a line of folks wanting to shell out $10 or more!  I know, I shouldn't give anyone at X ideas, but so many posters on here rave about that one dessert a whole lot.  

Exactly, I was thinking of the same thing! That would of made 100% sense.

Edited September 1, 2023 by kwokpot

[goofysmom99]

3 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

Exactly, I was thinking of the same thing! That would of made 100% sense.

Especially on ships without access to that dessert.