Warning: Azamara cancels our cruise two days out: Gaurantee is not a guarantee

Note that the algorithm is RCCL’s, not Azamara’s, so presumably affects every ship within the RCCL group -RCCL , Celebrity, Azamara & Pullmantur.

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Confused - how do you know for a fact who operates the algorithms letalone how they work?

I think it likely that a similar system applies on all Carnival group ships - Carnival, HAL, Costa and Aida.

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

And if and when they cancel a trip for a fully paid up traveler in similar circumstances they too should be taken to task.

There's also an element that the more premium you go be it cars, hotels, planes, trains the better you expect to get looked after and the less hassle. If any business markets itself as offering a luxury product / luxury service it needs to deliver on that from the very start to the very end.

Most air companies also overbook and have to bump passengers.

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Airlines operate differently to cruise lines. People buy fully flexible tickets for flights with the expectation they can no show or change their flights at short notice if circumstances dictate. It doesn't work like that for cruises - pull out at the last minute (or is the last 30 days) and the cruise line keeps all your money. People who have fully paid for their cabin should be assumed to be travelling. If someone has booked a cabin for a cruise and fully paid their bill other I can't foresee any circumstances why any cruise line would want to edge it bets and sell that cabin a second time. Once the cruise ship is sold out - either stop selling or put people on a wait list (with their consent). They won't oversell book fixed time seating in the dining room or excursions (if full they wait list you) so why oversell the cabins.

In order for the "guarantee" figure to exist, it has to be honored. If because of overbooking they are not able to guarantee the cabins sold as such, they should not use that figure at all. It is misleading. In that case they should sell cabins only as waitlisted. In this case the client knows there is a big risk that the cabin might not be available and plan accordingly.

I do hope that this situation, human error or algorithm, does not repeat in Azamara. That others also do it, is not relevant. We praise Azamara for being different and better, not for being like others.

Ivi

Confused - how do you know for a fact who operates the algorithms letalone how they work?.

If you look at Post 208 on this thread you will see the following “Under the RCL board on this forum, look for a thread titled 'Guaranteed Cabin NOT Guaranteed'.Here is a snippet,

"Miami HQ just called and confirmed that they can and do cancel people's cruises who have a "guaranteed" stateroom all the time and in some cases it is done on the actual day of embarkation. RC have an algorithm to determine who gets cancelled."

I don’t know for a fact that Royal Caribbean operates the algorithm, but all the discussion about algorithms on this thread follows that post that states Royal Caribbean have an algorithm. As RC are Azamara’s parent company, it seems reasonable to assume their algorithm is used on a Azamara bookings, if there is an overbooking.

Sent from my iPad using Forums

In order for the "guarantee" figure to exist, it has to be honored. If because of overbooking they are not able to guarantee the cabins sold as such, they should not use that figure at all. It is misleading. In that case they should sell cabins only as waitlisted. In this case the client knows there is a big risk that the cabin might not be available and plan accordingly.

I do hope that this situation, human error or algorithm, does not repeat in Azamara. That others also do it, is not relevant. We praise Azamara for being different and better, not for being like others.

Ivi

Sadly that no longer seems to be the case in many respects.

In 4 years as CBO this is the FIRST bump that I heard of (from external OR internal sources!) That was why I was equally dismayed for the OP, and looked into the situation for her. A CS employee tells me he's only seen maybe 6 times in 8 years that we couldn't board someone due to over-booking. And before you attack, yes, 6 times in 8 years is too many! But I offer that statistic so you'll know this is a very, very rare situation for us.

And I'm told by HQ as well as ship senior staff that there were not others bumped from this cruise, as the OP claims. So, my response to the claim that we had others bumped, and that we put them on Holland America is: No I cannot imagine such a scenario!

Re. her claim that shipboard staff are unhappy with the support they get, I received this statement from our President: "As for the commentary on Azamara and RCCL that’s just not supported by crew surveys. We have the best response at sea and our staff is very positive about support from HQ. This favorable environment results in very high crew exiting scores, longest repeat contracts by senior officers (Captains, Hotel Directors, Cruise Directors, etc.) The facts are clear, there is a strong bond between those on our ships and those onshore."

In closing, the OP was reinstated and is now happily cruising, and thinking of booking a future cruise onboard. I am glad they're now part of the AZ family and I look forward to them sailing many times in the future with Azamara Club Cruises.

Thank you for posting again Bonnie. This has been a very unhappy episode.

While only a small percentage of Azamara cruisers belong to CC, many posters are among your most loyal and frequent cruisers.

While you attest that bumping passengers is done fortunately very rarely this has done Azamara a huge amount of reputational damage among this group.

Do you think many of us will consider booking a guarantee cabin in the future? I certainly won't although I have done so successfully several times in the past.

The only positive is that Lahore is obviously enjoying her voyage so much she is considering making a future booking.

So happy to hear that you got on the cruise, and really glad to read that you are enjoying yourselves!

Kathy

By virtue of the name, a "guarantee" is just that...guaranteed! A reasonable person would expect to have a cabin that they had paid for on the ship and date they had selected. Isn't that the legal test...the "reasonable person" test?

Bonnie worked her magic and the OP received what was paid for (albeit by becoming very upset) and is happy. Aren't we "beating a moot horse under the bridge"? Maybe we all, including me, need to move on! Let's talk about the new onboard entertainment....

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Gosh Bonnie, I don’t want to get into an argument, in particular with you who helped me, but I swear on my life that I was told that about the three couples and Holland America ( I mean why would I make up that detail) by somebody extremely senior on this ship. The same person also had a bit to say that lead me to make the other comments about ship v Head Office. Said person knew everything about my situation and I won’t name them becuase basicslly I don’t want them to get into trouble now. However it seems that there’s an intimation that someone is lying and it could me me: naturally I really take offence to that.

I repeated the information not to run some bizarre vendetta because I really do feel that if I had a guarantee now on ANY cruise ship I would want to be monitoring it very carefully and I now have concern for other people who may be in the same situation as me. If you would like to contact me I will tell you more about exactly what I was told so that there can be no doubt as to my honesty.

After I found myself in this unfortunate position and you came to my aid, I really appreciate your help. On the other hand I don’t like your head office or anybody else imputing that I’m making ‘claims’; I repeated what your staff told me. If that’s untrue I don’t understand WHY on earth they would make ip that exact story.

We are about to sail out of Hobart. I’ll go back to being a happy guest. Again thank you for your help.

......... However it seems that there’s an intimation that someone is lying and it could me me: naturally I really take offence to that.

 

Sadly lahore that is what I took away from Bonnies post too.

If it's any comfort, I believe that you reported what you were told.

Sadly lahore that is what I took away from Bonnies post too.

If it's any comfort, I believe that you reported what you were told.

Yes, me too. Why would you do otherwise?

Phil

Sadly lahore that is what I took away from Bonnies post too.

If it's any comfort, I believe that you reported what you were told.

Maybe somebody is being less than honest with Bonnie.

Maybe somebody is being less than honest with Bonnie.

That’s my fear too. I trust onboard Officers way more than head office with the exception of Nicole.

Re Mr Pimental surveys and results unless these are completely anonomised ie not traceable by virtue of small numbers i.e how many hotel directors are, their ships or even IP address or handwriting then they are not worth the time to repeat.

We used to get these on a regular basis and they did not reflect anything other than the result that is wanted by the company.

Sorry Bonnie but until and unless Azamara accept there is a disconnect between HO view of their competence and the reality then NOTHING will happen.

PS Have you let all the Singapore passengers know of dock change?

Also how long after you have been advised of misleading advertising do you think a charge of willful miss advertising will stick?.

Sadly lahore that is what I took away from Bonnies post too.

 

If it's any comfort, I believe that you reported what you were told.

Me too

I also reported something I saw onboard (and photographed) in these boards and had a similar cut and paste response which inferred I was very much in the wrong so I can feel your hurt. I took issue at the time and was very grateful for the support of cruise critic members. I hope Lahore does likewise.

I hope Azamara do take Lahore up on her offer to further clarify what was said.

In the meantime am with all the others in the views posted.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Sadly lahore that is what I took away from Bonnies post too.

If it's any comfort, I believe that you reported what you were told.

I don't believe you were lying for one minute lahore. This is what you were told by a senior officer who should know the situation.

I would also believe the ship's officers over Miami HO any day.

This whole episode has been a PR disaster for Azamara, despite them putting it right for you in the end. I know the fantastic onboard staff will be doing their utmost to make sure you have a wonderful cruise. It's such a shame that they are so often let down by the ineptitude at HO.

I am very happy for you both that this situation got sorted out. I’m so sorry and horrified to read what you had to go through.

We are booked on our 15th cruise in 23 days on Celebrity. This will be our first celebrity cruise. We have a concierge guarantee stateroom, with assignment already. I never considers this happening. I can’t fathom how they can do this 2 days before a cruise. I just don’t get that.

I am so happy it resolved for you. But I’m anxious for those without a social media platform. This just shouldn’t even be a concern. Canceling a few weeks before is one thing- 2 days. Wow. Incomprehensible.....

 

Having said all that- I hope you and your DH have a blessed cruise!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

After reading this thread, I’ll never do a booking without a cabin assignment no matter how much cheaper it might be! Good luck to you!

Sadly lahore that is what I took away from Bonnies post too.

If it's any comfort, I believe that you reported what you were told.

I believe you as well Lahore. You know how the rumor mill is you tell someone something and then like the little game we played as children people add things on and like to embellish as it is passed on. Also sometimes in an email you can;t hear the way someone is saying something and that could be happening with Bonnie"s post. I cannot imagine her intentionally offending a guest.

Kathy

I believe you as well Lahore. You know how the rumor mill is you tell someone something and then like the little game we played as children people add things on and like to embellish as it is passed on . Also sometimes in an email you can;t hear the way someone is saying something and that could be happening with Bonnie"s post. I cannot imagine her intentionally offending a guest.

 

Kathy

While I agree any company should not intentionally offend a customer, Bonnie is simply the conduit between the HQ staff and the customer and simply passing on what the executives are telling her to say just as what we say is passed on to the executives. Think the message is very clear. Read into that what you choose and most of us know the correct answer.

I believe you as well Lahore. You know how the rumor mill is you tell someone something and then like the little game we played as children people add things on and like to embellish as it is passed on. Also sometimes in an email you can;t hear the way someone is saying something and that could be happening with Bonnie"s post. I cannot imagine her intentionally offending a guest.

 

Kathy

Agree.

In common usage I think the word “claimed” has developed a pejorative connotation.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

I think both Lahore and Bonnie are both reporting what they have been told. Bonnie is quoting people in HQ who have access to passenger manifests and hard data. Lahore is quoting someone she considers a reliable source. In my personal experience, “reliable sources” can be correct and they can also be wrong due to miscommunication, erroneous conclusions and many other reasons.

Unless someone who was actually stopped at the dock and then transferred to a HAL cruise comes on here, I’ll be treating that report with a grain of salt. Not a judgement on Lahore, just years of experience in customer service and management.

Lahore admitted that she was “imputing” dissatisfaction between “staff on the ship and the Guatemala Centre.” Perhaps her reliable source was “imputing”something also?

I feel that there are a lot of good things about Azamara,for example the way they eventually compensated Lahore for their many mistakes. And the fact that they have Bonnie on this site, helping us out and trying to clarify things.

I wondered if Bonnie would ever come on this thread after all the vituperation and conspiracy theories. Now it is clear that she is in a no-win situation here and this treatment can only damage the excellent relationship we have had with Azamara through her.

I wondered if Bonnie would ever come on this thread after all the vituperation and conspiracy theories. Now it is clear that she is in a no-win situation here and this treatment can only damage the excellent relationship we have had with Azamara through her.

She has stated her position. I doubt she will say anything more.

Sent from my iPad using Forums

I’m so sorry if I came across as being unsympathetic to you. It’s a horrible thing to have happen. You must be very upset and angry, quite rightly. As I said in my earlier post, I think you should be corresponding with Mr Pimental, Azamara CEO in Miami. He needs to be made aware of what Azamara has done to you.

Sent from my iPad using Forums

With such late notice the a reasonable explanation would have been that there were cabins which got damaged and or they were are not able to be occupied for that voyage. Water leaks, plumbing, etc.

They should have known at least 2 weeks in advance they were over sold. They finalize the cruise documents and moved the inventory over to the ship to control.

We recently returned from back to back cruises where we had a guarantee on both segments. I booked directly through Azamara and since I booked about 6 weeks in advance there were no specific cabins available. I asked the Azamara agent if there was any way that I WOULDN’T have a cabin on the ship and he said no....you are absolutely gong to have a cabin. Interesting to see that may not have been true.

I am very impressed with the way Bonnie came forward and helped. I was also impressed how well cruise critic was treated onboard. Russ held the event, talked, and then told people it was a good time to get together to talk about the tours they had booked on cruise critic and to fill any available spots. I was not expecting that. HAL used to be a friend of cruise critic but on our last cruise they didn’t even have a representative from staff there. Cookies, coffee and a room...that’s it. Good for Azamara for being there for us and a big thank you to Bonnie for being here as well.