Family's statement on toddler's cruise death

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, zqvol said:

 

No jury is going to see anything, the lawyer admitted there is no case.

Even Jim Walker has said that it will be extremely difficult to prove enough cause for the case to be heard, let alone proceed to trial.

[HNI]

8 hours ago, Jasonmom said:

Just watched the interview on the Today show.  I'm going to try to put it down with what was said and not my interpretation.  For those who missed the interview.

 

 

It started out with the family talking about how wonderful their little girl was, showing video and pictures of this beautiful 18 month old.  Her first word was "hi", she loved people. 

 

Then the mother stated she had "alot of questions, primarily why is there an open window in the kids play area 11 stories off the ground".  It said the cruise-line has the sliding glass windows to open and provide ventilation. 

 

Next it said that the family's attorney stated that "the toddler's grandfather placed her on a railing to look outside believing he was lifting her behind a wall of glass.  Something they did often at home at hockey games with Chloe banging on the glass".  The mother said that the grandfather was extremely hysterical the thing he repeatedly states is that he believes there was glass.  The mom states he has cried over and over.  She slows down and states "at no point ..... ever ...... ever ..... has Sam ever put our kids in danger".  Chloe's father answers a question about how the grandfather is doing and he says that the grandfather is extremely distraught and can barely be looked at without starting to cry, that Chloe was his best friend.  

 

The mother does talk about the moment she found out.

She talks about another mother on board comforting her and wants to thank her.

She talks about her son and how he felt if he was closer he could have saved his sister.

 

When asked about blame, blame the cruise line - "we obviously blame them.  There are a million things that could have been done to make that safer."  She states how her mother asks people why on earth there would be a window open on the 11th floor without a screen or anything and they were told it was to provide ventilation.  She states she says to those people "get a fan.  Come up with some other mechanism to make your guests comfortable rather than creating a tremendous safety hazard that cost our child their life".

 

When asked if they wanted to see the cruise line held responsible in court the mother said "I think that they have to be.  This cannot happen to another family."  

 

Next on to the lawyer (who has sued cruise lines in the past) who states that there is "no doubt that this was a accident but really the singular question is were there safety measure that could have been in place and should have been in place, and uh, if the were in place there would have been no tragedy".

 

It then goes on to give what Royal Caribbean statement can. 

"We are deeply saddened by this incident, and our hearts go out to the family.  We have assisted the authorities in San Juan with their inquiries, and they are the appropriate people to address further questions." 

 

The Puerto Rico department of justice told NBC that the investigation is in it's advanced stages and so it can not make any additional comments.

 

They finished by talking about how they wanted to remember Chloe.  Saying Chloe "was the light".  

 

NBC person goes on to talk about how "obviously they are looking into what they think the cruise company should or shouldn't have done."  They say that the family's attorney has repeatedly requested footage from cameras the ship as well as vessel inspection.  

 

They then say they think more than anything the family just wanted to tell Chloe's story.  That she lived and what an extraordinary little child she was.  They then go on to offer their thoughts and prayers for the family.

Looks like the Today show story was written by the family attorney. A con job to divert the blame from the idiot grandfather who caused this.

[Cruiser_1977]

36 minutes ago, Desertcactus said:

I hope Royal does not settle as it’s so clearly not their fault. I do think a monetary settlement is what the family is after...I doubt either parent will be able to go back to work. They would probably use the money to start a foundation of some sort and run it. Hope they don’t do any more interviews.

Why would the parents not be able to go back to work? I understand it may be awhile but at some point you have to continue your life. They have another child to support (emotionally and financially).

Edited July 22, 2019 by JennyB1977

[cruisinmeme]

I thought about replying to a quote but 99.9% are on the same page i am, so too many to reply to.  I for one am sick sick sick of hearing it is called a children’s play area. It should be said an area children play in. Royal’s children play are is completely enclosed. That is when you drop your kids off with royal employee’s in the day camp. The crazy thing is grandpa did all the crazy stuff not the child.  Been different had that sat on their butt while child climbs out a window.  Time people start watching their kids. The crap about not knowing the window was open is unbelievable to say the lease. It was irresponsible to put the child up there, window or not. I would be too embarrassed to tell anyone my kid likes to bang their head on glass. 

If this case were to ever go to a trial jury i am afraid the jury may request the whole family be put thru classes on being so stupid in judgement. 

I am sure everyone feels for the loss of life for this child but the family has truly gotten everyone against them. To know that Royal may be held responsible for their poor judgement makes me sick.  Sorta like i crawl on the railing to go to balcony next door and fall in the ocean.  My family flips out. No no no, i am the idiot.

[Jasonmom]

47 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Even Jim Walker has said that it will be extremely difficult to prove enough cause for the case to be heard, let alone proceed to trial.

 

Sorry, but who is Jim Walker?

 

2 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

Big businesses, including cruise lines, tend to be gun shy about trials... so many small liability suits are filed for people who slip on wet floors or trip over thresholds.   They tend to settle to make these things go away quietly. I would love to see a trial, as a precedent for "accidents happen and not always is someone to blame," and for all the people to fail to supervise their children adequately. I think the Cruise like would not be held at fault in this case.

 

I was actually surprised when my 12 year old had an accident (opened a door onto his foot) and the cruise ship (it was Royal Caribbean) didn't charge me for taking him to the medical center (they had to finish removing his big toenail that was 80-90% off).  I knew it was an accident and if anyone's fault it was my son's.  This in no way is as horrific as what has happened to this family, but I was amazed that the cruise line ate the bill for my family member's mistake.  I would not have thought twice about paying the bill (that is what travel insurance is for).  I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree that the cruise line did something (paying the bill for my kid's lack of momentary judgement - I mean he was 12 years old and opened a door onto his toe) to maybe make me (or maybe some litigious person) not think about suing them over my family member's mistake.  I agree with those who believe the cruise line will settle out of court to make all the bad press go away.  Do I think they should - no I don't.  

 

I wonder if the family is really worried that this never happens to another family if they would be satisfied with the windows being locked to where they couldn't open, screens put in, or signs placed up stating the dangers of placing children on railings?  Would fixing the problem as they see it be enough or does it demand money for punishment.  

Edited July 22, 2019 by Jasonmom

[mjkacmom]

14 minutes ago, cruisinmeme said:

I thought about replying to a quote but 99.9% are on the same page i am, so too many to reply to.  I for one am sick sick sick of hearing it is called a children’s play area. It should be said an area children play in. Royal’s children play are is completely enclosed. That is when you drop your kids off with royal employee’s in the day camp. The crazy thing is grandpa did all the crazy stuff not the child.  Been different had that sat on their butt while child climbs out a window.  Time people start watching their kids. The crap about not knowing the window was open is unbelievable to say the lease. It was irresponsible to put the child up there, window or not. I would be too embarrassed to tell anyone my kid likes to bang their head on glass. 

If this case were to ever go to a trial jury i am afraid the jury may request the whole family be put thru classes on being so stupid in judgement. 

I am sure everyone feels for the loss of life for this child but the family has truly gotten everyone against them. To know that Royal may be held responsible for their poor judgement makes me sick.  Sorta like i crawl on the railing to go to balcony next door and fall in the ocean.  My family flips out. No no no, i am the idiot.

I do not think 99.9% are on the same page as you.

[Desertcactus]

Regarding my comment about family not being able to return to work...I don’t see how they could get over the shock, guilt, trauma of losing such a young child this way, especially as they are not accepting the cause of the accident. Don’t see them able to function for a very long time.

[chengkp75]

18 minutes ago, Jasonmom said:

 

Sorry, but who is Jim Walker?

 

Jim Walker is another lawyer who makes a living suing cruise lines for shady reasons and runs the website "cruise law news" that posts all negative cruise articles.  I have personally been wronged by Mr. Walker, and have nothing good to say about him, his motives, his approach to the law, or his "professional" agenda.

[Jasonmom]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Jim Walker is another lawyer who makes a living suing cruise lines for shady reasons and runs the website "cruise law news" that posts all negative cruise articles.  I have personally been wronged by Mr. Walker, and have nothing good to say about him, his motives, his approach to the law, or his "professional" agenda.

 

OK, thanks.

 

[AmazedByCruising]

33 minutes ago, Jasonmom said:

I was actually surprised when my 12 year old had an accident (opened a door onto his foot) and the cruise ship (it was Royal Caribbean) didn't charge me for taking him to the medical center (they had to finish removing his big toenail that was 80-90% off).  I knew it was an accident and if anyone's fault it was my son's. 

...

 I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree that the cruise line did something (paying the bill for my kid's lack of momentary judgement - I mean he was 12 years old and opened a door onto his toe) to maybe make me (or maybe some litigious person) not think about suing them over my family member's mistake.  

 

I don't think RC was afraid of litigation about a toenail. My guess is the doctor felt sorry for your son, and "forgot", or actually did forget, to present you with a bill. 

[Jasonmom]

28 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

I don't think RC was afraid of litigation about a toenail. My guess is the doctor felt sorry for your son, and "forgot", or actually did forget, to present you with a bill. 

 

Might be right about the not being afraid of litigation about a toenail (but some people might try to sue for less) but I was told by NCL person when I was filling out papers in Medical center that they do not make any charges for accidents like this that occur on board.

[karrie3399]

4 hours ago, legaljen1969 said:

Fair enough, I see your point.  I do wonder though, is there not some other possible way this could be investigated without the grandfather being arrested?
I don't think the man has dementia. Clearly, I don't know.  I really think this is just a very poor lapse of judgment that resulted in a tragic end.  No matter what happens in this case,  this family is irreparably fractured.  Even if the world's enquiring minds get the "whole story," nothing is going to make this any better. Ever.  It's just all so very sad.
Yes, this poor baby needs to rest in peace. 

 

Thank you and yes I agree, nothing will make this situation better, it's totally tragic.

[Laszlo]

1 hour ago, Desertcactus said:

Regarding my comment about family not being able to return to work...I don’t see how they could get over the shock, guilt, trauma of losing such a young child this way, especially as they are not accepting the cause of the accident. Don’t see them able to function for a very long time.

If your independently wealthy you don't have to go back to work. However that is not most of us. Close friends of mine lost their only son when he was three in a tragic accident. Pretty typical family, both parents worked etc.....They both went back to work about two weeks after his death. It was good for both of them to get going again. And yes, it took them a long time to be able to function like they used to.

[Desertcactus]

Laszlo....That is how my family is also. We had two big losses six months apart and went right back to work. But this family is looking to sue and may end up with a large settlement. By the way...Laszlo is my family name.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Desertcactus
Typo

[Laszlo]

10 hours ago, Desertcactus said:

Laszlo....That is how my family is also. We had two big losses six months apart and went right back to work. But this family is looking to sue and may end up with a large settlement. By the way...Laszlo is my family name.

👍 You must be Hungarian

[david_sobe]

16 hours ago, erdoran said:

Again, let our judicial system prosecute the INTENTIONAL criminals - that high school kid who got off because he's a "good student" even though he texted comments about "first experience rape", that swimmer in CA.  Oh yes, how about the serial child abusers - I don't mean accidents, I mean ABUSE - who nothing happens to when their children go to school underfed, with bruises & broken bones for years, and nothing happens to them.  How about someone with multiple DUIs?  etc, etc, I'm sure everyone knows or has read about criminal behavior that has gone on for years with nothing done about it.

No one would ever disagree with what you stated.  However, reckless conduct (not your definition of "intentional" criminals) must have consequences. If I let my son borrow my car and he drives 90 mph in a 25 mph speed zone and hits you with a car causing you damage.  Should my son not be responsible for his reckless conduct?  That is the standard here.  If a baby sitter watched over your child and this happened, would you not want them held accountable?  Just because the inner family is rallying around the grandfather does NOT excuse his conduct.

[GirlWriter]

I have never been on this ship and so am not sure how the windows work, but is it possible that the window was closed but not latched and that the baby's banging on it pushed it open unexpectedly?

[dcgrumpy]

10 minutes ago, GirlWriter said:

I have never been on this ship and so am not sure how the windows work, but is it possible that the window was closed but not latched and that the baby's banging on it pushed it open unexpectedly?

I don't think so. The windows slide to the side.

[April42749]

18 minutes ago, GirlWriter said:

I have never been on this ship and so am not sure how the windows work, but is it possible that the window was closed but not latched and that the baby's banging on it pushed it open unexpectedly?

Anything is possible.  But, if that were the scenario Grandpa would have said so.

[shof515]

16 minutes ago, GirlWriter said:

I have never been on this ship and so am not sure how the windows work, but is it possible that the window was closed but not latched and that the baby's banging on it pushed it open unexpectedly?

 

The window is high up, there is no way a baby can reach it or bang it

[Beardface]

27 minutes ago, GirlWriter said:

I have never been on this ship and so am not sure how the windows work, but is it possible that the window was closed but not latched and that the baby's banging on it pushed it open unexpectedly?

No, it takes some effort to open them up.

 

All the windows on this line are also shaded green and are usually pretty dirty from the salt air.  I don't buy it that they couldn't tell it was open, it's usually obvious.

 

And here's the thing, those windows are 3-4 feet off the ground and are angled so that there is a foot gap between the railing and the window.  It is a monumentally stupid decision to have put her in that place to begin with, as she still could/would have fallen from the railing to the ground.  But that wouldn't have killed her.

 

I have a 19 month old daughter.  My initial reaction to this story was 'why the hell would you do that?!?'. I've been on the Freedom before, I know how much my own kid squirms in my arms at a moment's notice for the most random of things.  Putting her up that close to a window would be the absolute last thing I would ever do because I don't trust a kid that young to not do something stupid to hurt herself.

 

Companies providing a public service should definitely be accountable for the safety of those it handles.  But a line has to be drawn at handling gross negligence and incompetence by those same people, which is what happened here.  There is no way that a baby could have gotten into that situation on it's own and there is no way a reasonable person would put anyone in that situation for it to happen again.  This was an event that happened because an adult put a child they were caring for in a very dangerous position and the worst happened.  Outside of turning each of these ships into a floating enclosed cage, you can't prevent this.  You can't protect against that level of irresponsibility.  And it's not just the grandfather who is at fault, it's every other adult that was there, saw what was happening, and did nothing to mitigate the danger.

[UFMOM]

38 minutes ago, Beardface said:

No, it takes some effort to open them up.

 

All the windows on this line are also shaded green and are usually pretty dirty from the salt air.  I don't buy it that they couldn't tell it was open, it's usually obvious.

 

And here's the thing, those windows are 3-4 feet off the ground and are angled so that there is a foot gap between the railing and the window.  It is a monumentally stupid decision to have put her in that place to begin with, as she still could/would have fallen from the railing to the ground.  But that wouldn't have killed her.

 

I have a 19 month old daughter.  My initial reaction to this story was 'why the hell would you do that?!?'. I've been on the Freedom before, I know how much my own kid squirms in my arms at a moment's notice for the most random of things.  Putting her up that close to a window would be the absolute last thing I would ever do because I don't trust a kid that young to not do something stupid to hurt herself.

 

Companies providing a public service should definitely be accountable for the safety of those it handles.  But a line has to be drawn at handling gross negligence and incompetence by those same people, which is what happened here.  There is no way that a baby could have gotten into that situation on it's own and there is no way a reasonable person would put anyone in that situation for it to happen again.  This was an event that happened because an adult put a child they were caring for in a very dangerous position and the worst happened.  Outside of turning each of these ships into a floating enclosed cage, you can't prevent this.  You can't protect against that level of irresponsibility.  And it's not just the grandfather who is at fault, it's every other adult that was there, saw what was happening, and did nothing to mitigate the danger.

 

I agree with everything you said but I suspect it happened so fast no one had a chance to intervene. I certainly would have yelled at him to put the baby down immediately. Years ago I yelled at someone who was holding an older kid up on a deck railing for a picture. All I got was mind your own business yelled back at me. This was before cell phones with cameras and it was over before a crew member could be found. You can’t fix stupid.

 

Mary Ann

[Pauser]

When this was initially reported, they announced that a child had died from a fall from the ship. There was no further information available. The first update said the grandfather had been holding the little girl outside the window and dropped her. The next day an attorney was involved and gave us the current story - grandpa sat her on a railing to bang on a window and didn't realize there was no glass. 

 

Yesterday when the parents were interviewed, they said they had no idea why windows "that high" in the children's area would be open and they want the cruise line held responsible since there were "a million things" they could have done to make it safer and they "don't want another family to suffer the same loss." To illustrate their point, they showed a video of the wall of windows, and the windows were clearly green. When they opened the window, it was clearly open and not green. And what is a child doing "that high"? 

 

It sounds like grandpa used very poor judgement and acted negligently. And their admitting that the windows were so high doesn't seem like it would help their case. It will probably be settled quietly out of court and we'll never know the outcome, but I think the parents are holding the wrong party responsible.

[GeezerCouple]

7 hours ago, GirlWriter said:

I have never been on this ship and so am not sure how the windows work, but is it possible that the window was closed but not latched and that the baby's banging on it pushed it open unexpectedly?

 

 Not in this case apparently.  However, it's just ANOTHER reason not to let children "bang on windows".  Duh!

 

GC

[GA Dave]

We did a quick calculation at work on the usual capacity of this ship and the average number of sailings per year and came up with a very conservative estimate that 2.4 million people have sailed on this ship since it was built.  And this is the first time a child has fallen through one of those windows.  If this was truly a big safety issue, based on normal statistics, there would have been many more cases of this occurring over the years.