RocketMan275 Posted February 25, 2020 #1651 Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said: IMO, if the criminal trial comes back with a "guilty" verdict, that hurts Winkleman's case. "See, a court already found Anello was responsible, so how can RCI also be responsible." On the other hand, if Anello is found NG, that helps Winkleman. "See, a court already found Anello wasn't responsible, so RCI must be." There can be joint responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cltnccruisers Posted February 25, 2020 #1652 Share Posted February 25, 2020 28 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said: There can be joint responsibility. I don't see that since one is a criminal case and the other civil. Supposedly, though maybe not realistically, they don't affect one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.M.J.R. Posted February 26, 2020 #1653 Share Posted February 26, 2020 47 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said: Winkleman’s main focus is his case. To help in the GF’s case is really no concern of his. He gets no financial gain from helping. His battle is against RC, regarding safety and financial reimbursement for the family’s loss of a daughter, as well as pain and suffering. I disagree with the bolded. I think the GF's case DOES impact Winkleman's case as I have listed a couple different times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan275 Posted February 26, 2020 #1654 Share Posted February 26, 2020 18 minutes ago, cltnccruisers said: I don't see that since one is a criminal case and the other civil. Supposedly, though maybe not realistically, they don't affect one another. Didn't say they did. Just pointed out that in civil cases, it can be found that one person is partially responsible and so is another. Also, there is this: Joint and several liability is a rule followed in some states, in which two or more parties can be held independently liable for the full amount of a personal injury plaintiff’s damages, regardless of their respective degrees of fault. It gets more complicated, suggest your read the article: https://www.justia.com/injury/negligence-theory/joint-and-several-liability/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cltnccruisers Posted February 26, 2020 #1655 Share Posted February 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said: Didn't say they did. Just pointed out that in civil cases, it can be found that one person is partially responsible and so is another. Also, there is this: Joint and several liability is a rule followed in some states, in which two or more parties can be held independently liable for the full amount of a personal injury plaintiff’s damages, regardless of their respective degrees of fault. It gets more complicated, suggest your read the article: https://www.justia.com/injury/negligence-theory/joint-and-several-liability/hall I'm not a lawyer and, in truth, I hate them. The words "lawyer" and "liar" are just too similar. But I shall read your link. However, you mention "some states" - PR is not a state yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare A&L_Ont Posted February 26, 2020 #1656 Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, S.A.M.J.R. said: I disagree with the bolded. I think the GF's case DOES impact Winkleman's case as I have listed a couple different times. You may disagree with me, but he was hired for one case. The other may concern/relate to his case, however it is not his responsibility to provide experts or opinions. His helping in the one case could negatively effect his case, and that one is his pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextcruiseis Posted February 26, 2020 #1657 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Breaking News per David Begnaud (CBS News): Sam Anello, the Indiana grandpa charged with negligent homicide after his granddaughter fell from his hands aboard a cruise ship in Puerto Rico will plead guilty in a deal offered by prosecutors. Deal: no jail time, no admission to the facts, probation served in Indiana. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisegus Posted February 26, 2020 #1658 Share Posted February 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, nextcruiseis said: Breaking News per David Begnaud (CBS News): Sam Anello, the Indiana grandpa charged with negligent homicide after his granddaughter fell from his hands aboard a cruise ship in Puerto Rico will plead guilty in a deal offered by prosecutors. Deal: no jail time, no admission to the facts, probation served in Indiana. please provide a link to your source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not-enough-cruising Posted February 26, 2020 #1659 Share Posted February 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, cruisegus said: please provide a link to your source https://www.wndu.com/content/news/Grandfather-of-toddler-who-fell-to-death-from-cruise-ship-to-plead-guilty-568192381.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEBBarney Posted February 26, 2020 #1660 Share Posted February 26, 2020 https://abc13.com/indiana-grandfather-accused-in-toddlers-cruise-ship-death-changes-plea-to-guilty/5967597/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyssaJames Posted February 26, 2020 #1661 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Good. I guess this doesn’t necessarily stop the civil suit? Or does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Big_M Posted February 26, 2020 #1662 Share Posted February 26, 2020 So he's guilty with virtually no penalty. Pretty much a win for him. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSocial Posted February 26, 2020 #1663 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, AlyssaJames said: Good. I guess this doesn’t necessarily stop the civil suit? Or does it? “This decision was an incredibly difficult one for Sam and the family, but because the plea agreement includes no jail time and no admission of facts, it was decided the plea deal is in the best interests of the family so that they can close this horrible chapter and turn their focus to mourning Chloe and fighting for cruise passenger safety by raising awareness about the need for all common carriers to adhere to window fall prevention laws designed to protect children from falling from windows," a statement from maritime attorney Michael Winkleman of Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman P.A says.” from link post 1661 above. Still trying to find fault with the ship Edited February 26, 2020 by BSocial Underline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voyager70 Posted February 26, 2020 #1664 Share Posted February 26, 2020 11 minutes ago, The_Big_M said: So he's guilty with virtually no penalty. Pretty much a win for him. If that's true that's terrible. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeLuvVacation Posted February 26, 2020 #1665 Share Posted February 26, 2020 If the above decision/penalty is true then justice has truly been hoodwinked again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSocial Posted February 26, 2020 #1666 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) With the plea deal, what does Guilty “with no admission of facts” mean? Edited February 26, 2020 by BSocial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not-enough-cruising Posted February 26, 2020 #1667 Share Posted February 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, WeLuvVacation said: If the above decision/penalty is true then justice has truly been hoodwinked again. Looks legit. Being reported by all major networks and many high profile print publications now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSocial Posted February 26, 2020 #1668 Share Posted February 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Heymarco said: I think it means that it can’t be used against them in their lawsuit against Royal. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uksaint Posted February 26, 2020 #1669 Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, The_Big_M said: So he's guilty with virtually no penalty. Pretty much a win for him. If he has any sort of conscience - then he will suffer a lifelong penalty far worse than any court could impose. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smplybcause Posted February 26, 2020 #1670 Share Posted February 26, 2020 59 minutes ago, BSocial said: With the plea deal, what does Guilty “with no admission of facts” mean? Essentially that all he admitted was he was guilty. Sometimes pleas require the person to state for the record what they did which then automatically becomes a fact and the words can be used as fact in a civil case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mugtech Posted February 26, 2020 #1671 Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, The_Big_M said: So he's guilty with virtually no penalty. Pretty much a win for him. Could be a factor if he is looking for employment. Probation means he will be meeting with a court officer fairly often. Probably some fines and court costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare taxatty Posted February 26, 2020 #1672 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Don't worry about the facts not coming out yet. His eventual deposition should be quite interesting, especially with the video evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare brillohead Posted February 26, 2020 #1673 Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, BSocial said: With the plea deal, what does Guilty “with no admission of facts” mean? He's not going to stand up in court and say that he knew the window was open when he picked up the baby and put her over the railing. If he admitted that he knew the window was open, then the parents have no excuse to carry on with their lawsuit, which is based on the fact that there was no sign warning people that the windows could be open. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwestgal Posted February 26, 2020 #1674 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) He has now changed his plea to guilty and will serve no jail time. Edited February 26, 2020 by Midwestgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Wheels Only Posted February 26, 2020 #1675 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, The_Big_M said: So he's guilty with virtually no penalty. Pretty much a win for him. I've had speeding tickets with more harsh penalties. No one was killed. No one was hurt. No property was damaged. I may have killed a few bugs on my helmet or windshield. Anello killed a human child. Edited February 26, 2020 by Two Wheels Only 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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