Germ Report -Edge

[flowery]

We sailed last week on the Edge. Here are a few of the mistakes I observed:

 

On embarkation, two different people asked to see our express pass (phone) and handled our phone (or other passengers' paper passes) one after the next, quickly moving people along. Personnel didn't sanitize their hands between handling devices and papers or offer sanitizing wipes to passengers to clean their phones or dispose of their paper passes after all that handling.

 

Capt Kate announced at muster that there would be no hand shakes; however, our butler extended his hand and crew were high five-ing passengers at a trivia game in The Club.

 

Communal shampoo, conditioner and body wash in the shower and communal body lotion on bathroom shelf- butler refills with a large jug. Not a good idea. Dispensers are likely contaminated.

 

Luminae dining- beautiful place settings with showy charger plates. The waiter hands you a heavy menu, you peruse the menu but it's very heavy and while waiting for him to return to take your order, you have a natural tendency to lay it on the charger plates or brush against them. Before the first course arrives, the charger plates (all for show?) are removed and taken away- very doubtful that these chargers that were never used but still potentially contaminated by hands/menus are re washed.

 

Constant handling of plastic room cards by the crew. No sanitation of hands by crew between handling passengers cards. E.g.- "water guy" at ports, takes your pass in his hand and then notes (by hand!) scrawling on a piece of paper your name and room number and then hands you an aluminum bottle of water! One after the next. Bartenders at the Retreat bar take your plastic pass, look at it, set it aside, make your drink, tear off tip of paper wrapper and place it in your drink, bare hands brushing the tip of the straw and bare hands contaminating the outside of your drink glass. No hand washing or hand sanitation between handling dozens of plastic cards and making drinks. The same situation at Raw on Five, Grand Bistro. All these situations require a scanner like the one they have for disembarking at ports- passengers hold up their cards to a scanner- crew doesn't touch the cards.

 

Studies at airports show some of the most contaminated things are the plastic bins/saucers in security x ray machines. Celebrity also has these plastic saucers- can they be sanitized between passengers?

 

I'm sure there are many more examples.. cruise lines should hire infectious disease experts (who could function like undercover "secret shoppers)" to come in and analyze things and make recommendations.

 

Our sky suite was pristine and immaculate- and the rest of the ship appeared that way as well. But in times of covid-19 and noro- appearances can be deceiving. Actually, I think many of these measures are futile- we tried so hard to be careful but it was very difficult and we made constant mistakes ourselves- unavoidable.

 

 

[omeinv]

I think you need to recognize that as long as one doesn't choose to isolate themselves entirely, it's impossible to eliminate the routes of transmission that could possibly exist.  Eliminating the majority of items you identify woudl be highly impractical, if not impossible. 

 

For instance you express concern about the dispensers for soap and shampoo, but if there were individual containers those would certain;y be handled by at least the room steward, if not others in the supply chain. 

 

Your seapass card being handled by crew is akin to using a credit card for a purchase.  It's either handed to the clerk, or you insert it in a machine, then use the touchpad that countless other customers do. 

 

The fact is you cannot both interact with others, and eliminate every conceivable germ transmission. In the case of Corona Virus, the primary route of transmission is not contaminated surfaces, but airborne, due to coughs, sneezes, and simple breathing. 

 

The best means of stopping transmission of those germs where surface transmission is the culprit is hand washing, for the very reason that the surfaces can be contaminated by all the methods you mention and a hundred more.  The fact is you WILL touch contaminated surfaces.  The thing you can control is the ceanliness of your hands. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

 

 

 

 

[Germancruiser]

I am always of the opinion better safe then sorry- but one can overdo things also! As the afore poster so aptly wrote- the virus is airborne- in most cases anyway. There is never a 100% saftey card for those things! Think positiv - hope for the best- and prepare for the worst and- most important: the glas is always HALF FULL!

[chemmo]

On entering our room I use sanitising wipes on the remote, the bathroom toiletries bottles, door knobs and telephone. Takes only a couple of minutes...We also then thoroughly wash our hands aware of the multiple surfaces we have touched in the hotel lobby, the taxi, the cash tips for the porters....After that we use every sanitizer we see, rarely use public bathrooms and keep washing our hands. Other than that we relax and enjoy our cruise.

 

The above was all to do with noro and is our routine in hotels as well as on cruises.

 

Cards I hadn’t considered...perhaps a quick wipe over once or twice a day.

 

As others have said you can’t avoid all bugs but if everyone tries their best....

 

 

[deliver42]

Other than washing my hands more often, and using sanitizer when available, I'm living as I would have at any other time. I refuse to get caught up in what has become a panic concerning everyday germs.

[dcbiker97]

Sounds like you would have been more comfortable and safe by wearing a protective suit and gas mask while on the ship if you were that concerned about documenting how Celebrity failed. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by dcbiker97

[Bo1953]

7 hours ago, flowery said:

We sailed last week on the Edge. Here are a few of the mistakes I observed:

 

On embarkation, two different people asked to see our express pass (phone) and handled our phone (or other passengers' paper passes) one after the next, quickly moving people along. Personnel didn't sanitize their hands between handling devices and papers or offer sanitizing wipes to passengers to clean their phones or dispose of their paper passes after all that handling.

 

Capt Kate announced at muster that there would be no hand shakes; however, our butler extended his hand and crew were high five-ing passengers at a trivia game in The Club.

 

Communal shampoo, conditioner and body wash in the shower and communal body lotion on bathroom shelf- butler refills with a large jug. Not a good idea. Dispensers are likely contaminated.

 

Luminae dining- beautiful place settings with showy charger plates. The waiter hands you a heavy menu, you peruse the menu but it's very heavy and while waiting for him to return to take your order, you have a natural tendency to lay it on the charger plates or brush against them. Before the first course arrives, the charger plates (all for show?) are removed and taken away- very doubtful that these chargers that were never used but still potentially contaminated by hands/menus are re washed.

 

Constant handling of plastic room cards by the crew. No sanitation of hands by crew between handling passengers cards. E.g.- "water guy" at ports, takes your pass in his hand and then notes (by hand!) scrawling on a piece of paper your name and room number and then hands you an aluminum bottle of water! One after the next. Bartenders at the Retreat bar take your plastic pass, look at it, set it aside, make your drink, tear off tip of paper wrapper and place it in your drink, bare hands brushing the tip of the straw and bare hands contaminating the outside of your drink glass. No hand washing or hand sanitation between handling dozens of plastic cards and making drinks. The same situation at Raw on Five, Grand Bistro. All these situations require a scanner like the one they have for disembarking at ports- passengers hold up their cards to a scanner- crew doesn't touch the cards.

 

Studies at airports show some of the most contaminated things are the plastic bins/saucers in security x ray machines. Celebrity also has these plastic saucers- can they be sanitized between passengers?

 

I'm sure there are many more examples.. cruise lines should hire infectious disease experts (who could function like undercover "secret shoppers)" to come in and analyze things and make recommendations.

 

Our sky suite was pristine and immaculate- and the rest of the ship appeared that way as well. But in times of covid-19 and noro- appearances can be deceiving. Actually, I think many of these measures are futile- we tried so hard to be careful but it was very difficult and we made constant mistakes ourselves- unavoidable.

Have you forgotten that this virus is 'respiratory' in its' transmission and not bacterial?

 

As such, touching things or individuals is not the way of transmission, it is sneezing and coughing (mainly) then touching your face or inhaling the the virus from a relatively close distance, in any manner, during or afterwards of being in front of the cough/sneeze.

 

The reason it is highly recommended hand washing regularly be done.,

 

As such, until health officials state that this 'virus' acts like (which is highly unlikely) like a bacteria and can be spread like a virus, then there may be no worry on touching things.

 

When that becomes the case all travel will be shut down for sure.

 

In health and bon voyage

[flowery]

Bo- I'm sorry but you're wrong about its transmission.

28 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

Have you forgotten that this virus is 'respiratory' in its' transmission and not bacterial?

 

As such, touching things or individuals is not the way of transmission, it is sneezing and coughing (mainly) then touching your face or inhaling the the virus from a relatively close distance, in any manner, during or afterwards of being in front of the cough/sneeze.

 

The reason it is highly recommended hand washing regularly be done.,

 

As such, until health officials state that this 'virus' acts like (which is highly unlikely) like a bacteria and can be spread like a virus, then there may be no worry on touching things.

 

When that becomes the case all travel will be shut down for sure.

 

In health and bon voyage

 

The airports we transited through were busy and congested. I saw two people wearing masks- the ear loop type- not N 95s. One was a TSA agent and another was a passenger at a gate.

 

The cruise experience itself was excellent. I highly recommend the Edge. I wrote a review several days ago which still hasn't posted. I wonder why hotel reviews on tripadvisor (same owner) appear so quickly but not ship reviews.

 

Good luck to all of us!

[Alakegirl]

Why did you hand over your phone if you were worried about contamination?

 

why did you hand over your card to the guy who sold the water?  Just read off the numbers to him.

 

just because someone asks for something doesn’t mean you have to comply

[az_tchr]

Bo - if someone coughs and droplets are on their hands those droplets can transfer to other surfaces. In turn to you.

An infected person can transfer the virus by touching a hand rail, elevator button, dish, or menu.

The chance is very very small. Everyone can be conscientious about washing their hands and not coughing without covering. There is indeed some risk. Not willing to have that risk?  You probably need to remain home.

[Bo1953]

7 minutes ago, az_tchr said:

Bo - if someone coughs and droplets are on their hands those droplets can transfer to other surfaces. In turn to you.

An infected person can transfer the virus by touching a hand rail, elevator button, dish, or menu.

The chance is very very small. Everyone can be conscientious about washing their hands and not coughing without covering. There is indeed some risk. Not willing to have that risk?  You probably need to remain home.

Thank you and the others for this correction.

 

bon voyage

[Fouremco]

10 hours ago, flowery said:

On embarkation, two different people asked to see our express pass (phone) and handled our phone (or other passengers' paper passes) one after the next, quickly moving people along. Personnel didn't sanitize their hands between handling devices and papers or offer sanitizing wipes to passengers to clean their phones or dispose of their paper passes after all that handling.

We often see things from a singular perspective. Your concern is that your phone was handled by people who didn't first sanitize their hands. Fair enough, but did you sanitize your hands and your phone immediately before giving it to them, to protect them from whatever germs you might be carrying? The same thing applies with the room cards, you shouldn't expect the crew to take steps that you aren't taking yourself. If every terminal employee had to take 30 seconds or so to properly sanitize their hands between each and every passenger checking in, it would add hours to the embarkation process. And if the numerous dock and ship personnel who handle your baggage had to sanitize between bags, you'd still be waiting.

 

 

[cruisestitch]

Well said -- see the issues from both sides and they take on new relative importance.  

 

 

 

 

[FRMPEI]

7 hours ago, chemmo said:

On entering our room I use sanitising wipes on the remote, the bathroom toiletries bottles, door knobs and telephone. Takes only a couple of minutes...We also then thoroughly wash our hands aware of the multiple surfaces we have touched in the hotel lobby, the taxi, the cash tips for the porters....After that we use every sanitizer we see, rarely use public bathrooms and keep washing our hands. Other than that we relax and enjoy our cruise.

 

The above was all to do with noro and is our routine in hotels as well as on cruises.

 

Cards I hadn’t considered...perhaps a quick wipe over once or twice a day.

 

As others have said you can’t avoid all bugs but if everyone tries their best....

 

 

 

I have read that you have done this in the past posts and kind of thought "then" a little over kill. But, now I agree 100% with your process. In fact on our upcoming cruise next week we will be taking some sanitising wipe with us for the first time.

 

Regards,

Kevin Reid

[Langley Cruisers]

8 hours ago, chemmo said:

Cards I hadn’t considered...perhaps a quick wipe over once or twice a day.

 

I actually wash our cards daily with soap and hot water - hotel room keys, cabin keys, credit cards. More effective than sanitizer and completely easy to do since they are plastic. 😊

[hcat]

5 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

Have you forgotten that this virus is 'respiratory' in its' transmission and not bacterial?

 

As such, touching things or individuals is not the way of transmission, it is sneezing and coughing (mainly) then touching your face or inhaling the the virus from a relatively close distance, in any manner, during or afterwards of being in front of the cough/sneeze.

 

The reason it is highly recommended hand washing regularly be done.,

 

As such, until health officials state that this 'virus' acts like (which is highly unlikely) like a bacteria and can be spread like a virus, then there may be no worry on touching things.

 

When that becomes the case all travel will be shut down for sure.

 

In health and bon voyage

Hi Bo

Online article  that I  just read contradicts  this. It suggested that  in addition to the sneezing and coughing, close contact/talking means of  transmission etc,   the germs stay on surfaces awhile and may likely "shed " in other ways.  Article says sanitizing your toilet bowl, overall bathroom and sinks can help maintain a germ reduced environment, in addition to handwashing and sanitizing.   We can do this at home and hopefully... it will be just as clean in public spaces, on airplanes and cruise ships.. Bleach cruise anyone!

 

Each day the experts share more data and opinions...so we  all need to  pay attention and do our best!

[jb008]

Fomites is the word of the day. 

 

Just off Infinity this AM.  Avid cruiser, but I'm skeptical you can adequately reduce risk of transmission. Containment was the February word of the month, but now that covid is likely to be endemic to the US it's a matter of when not IF one of the ships becomes a major point of exposure for a patient cluster. 

 

I told my boss that I'm glad I was sailing at the end of Feb and not a few weeks later, and I stand by that. 

[PTC DAWG]

10 hours ago, deliver42 said:

Other than washing my hands more often, and using sanitizer when available, I'm living as I would have at any other time. I refuse to get caught up in what has become a panic concerning everyday germs.

Same here. 

[chemmo]

3 hours ago, FRMPEI said:

 

I have read that you have done this in the past posts and kind of thought "then" a little over kill. But, now I agree 100% with your process. In fact on our upcoming cruise next week we will be taking some sanitising wipe with us for the first time.

 

Regards,

Kevin Reid

 

Kevin, I wish I could put down our ‘routine’ to being wise but it evolved following reading other’s advice re avoiding noro.

 

I think the balance for all of us this year is to try to be vigilant without being cautious/concerned to the point where our cruise experience is compromised...

 

I also think that if the worry of infection overtakes the pleasure of looking forward to/enjoying a cruise then it is time to cancel or defer...

 

We are lucky this year we cruise from Southampton, October so plenty of time for things to improve or to pull the plug, no flights involved...

 

My heartfelt concern and love goes to those who cruise in the next month or two with difficult decisions to make. Those in general good health and not yet old enough to be considered ‘vintage’ perhaps don’t need to worry too much but for those of us who resemble a ‘mature port’ we do need at all times to be vigilant.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by chemmo

[Cruising89143]

12 hours ago, deliver42 said:

Other than washing my hands more often, and using sanitizer when available, I'm living as I would have at any other time. I refuse to get caught up in what has become a panic concerning everyday germs.

This. The only thing that I am adding is avoiding touching my face.

[hcat]

4 hours ago, jb008 said:

Fomites is the word of the day. 

 

Just off Infinity this AM.  Avid cruiser, but I'm skeptical you can adequately reduce risk of transmission. Containment was the February word of the month, but now that covid is likely to be endemic to the US it's a matter of when not IF one of the ships becomes a major point of exposure for a patient cluster. 

 

I told my boss that I'm glad I was sailing at the end of Feb and not a few weeks later, and I stand by that. 

I had to look that word up....basically things we touch or have contact with,,,

 

"Fomites definition, any agent, as clothing or bedding, that is capable of absorbing and transmitting the infecting organism of a disease. See more."

[DrKoob]

6 hours ago, Langley Cruisers said:

 

I actually wash our cards daily with soap and hot water - hotel room keys, cabin keys, credit cards. More effective than sanitizer and completely easy to do since they are plastic. 😊

 

Cards? That's interesting. I only use stairs on a ship to try and balance all the food and drink I am consuming. We just got off Reflection on Monday from a 10 day cruise and I never touched a stair rail. And what about elevator buttons? They get touched by others every few minutes. Not sure there is a way to sanitize everything other than the aforementioned hazmat suit and gas mask. 

 

Jim

[llawrence]

Something I always do is take a spray bottle and a bleach tablet...(available at Walmart)....when I enter my cabin I dilute the bleach and spray down the bathroom , deck , and table surfaces....I do this several times during the cruise.....I leave the bottle when I disembark.....still use sanitizer and wipes.....makes me feel better...don’t know if it really works....we leave on the Edge Sunday....not really worried.

[flowery]

Some apparent medical experts on these boards have assured us for weeks that influenza is much worse than covid-19 and on this particular thread that there's no problem with communal lotions/body wash etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/hand-washing-coronavirus-moisturizer-dry/2020/03/06/ede43874-5fcb-11ea-b014-4fafa866bb81_story.html

 

[cruisequeen4ever]

Yep, I think cruise lines across the board need to step up their standards with crew training. So many crew are lax with germ warfare, which passes the germs to passengers.