Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[TwoMisfits]

5 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

That would be be convenient for passengers and reduce the effect on each port compared to disembarking everyone at once. But I don't see it happening. Logistically difficult with so many ports refusing ships. HAL will be lucky to find one port that will take the passengers. They can't gamble on finding multiple ports, especially with the distance they'd have to travel doing that. 

But I think for those 3 places - the US, Canada, and Europe - the pressure from their citizens to get their own people off might make it possible...

 

And better an incomplete solution than no solution...

 

There may be much more willingness to help 300 vs 2000 by each main government...and then with 1000 off, the problem now becomes a 1000 person issue, not a 2000 one...

Edited March 30, 2020 by TwoMisfits

[3rdGenCunarder]

24 minutes ago, DFD1 said:

Extremely well said. Thanks.

 

I have almost stopped watching the evening national news because of the "push" and the sensational tone of voice in the whole news cast. Every word and every syllable is pushed to the point of almost hysteria.

Sometimes it's almost like Jerry Springer doing the news. It would be funny if it were not so serious.

 

You never know. He did Dancing With the Stars. And there is "Jerry Springer, the Opera." (Actually a musical not an opera) 

[AncientWanderer]

32 minutes ago, kangforpres said:

In CA the Local, State and Federal Gov't all worked together on the Grand Princess emergency. It was a multiple jurisdiction, multiple agency effort.

 

The same will have to happen where ever the Zaandam winds up, maybe it would be better for the people on board the Zaandam if they went to TX, instead of FL.

 

It might.  I trust decision-makers will find the best place for Zaandam.

 

We had to go to an emergency room in Ft. Lauderdale the night before embarking on a transatlantic cruise, just for an infected bug bite.  The doctors were really great and took good care of DH, but they were really, really slammed there just on a regular Saturday night.  It was a mob scene in the waiting room.  

 

So those in charge probably know what resources are available locally and will figure out how best to take care of those on the Zaandam.  

 

 

[sailingdutchy]

44 minutes ago, Boatdrill said:

The new gates waiting to be installed  (April 2014).   

 

Thank you very much for this picture @Boatdrill  I was really looking at those "Doors " of the locks last night . Great to see them up close ! 

 

 

 

[rafinmd]

48 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

Folks, I really want this thread to stay open so can you please heed the moderator's repeated warnings and stay on topic?  This thread is about Zaandam, not FL's governor.  

Can we expand that to include the Rotterdam?  Definitely not the politics, though.

 

Roy

[Vict0riann]

Talking about Rotterdam (as they are sailing in tandem, Roy, I think it is appropriate to include her in this story!), I remember once Copper John mentioning her speed - that she is able to go faster than the rest of her sisters in the fleet because she is missing something that the others have that slows them down.  Do you remember what it was?  I know she has azipods.  

[sail2day]

1 hour ago, bob brown said:

I have been following this, perhaps the most compelling thread of all time on Cruise Critic's....

Thanks to all those who have voiced their varied opinion's, whatever they may be...a microcosm of world opinion's.

And special thanks to all those with extensive cruise and marine knowledge, that have taken the time to explain thing's to us all.

With a shout out to those up all night capturing screen shots and posting them here of the AIS and Canal Cams...

 

*

 

As a South Florida resident, I am appalled by some of this NIMBYism displayed by certain politician's, as well as some of our poster's.   After having gone thru a similar dilemma of being refused disembarkation, and uncertainty on my recent Antarctica cruise, I have strong empathy for the plight of those on the Zaandam, and other's in their position.   I would welcome them to my county, and city for relief.   I believe they will disembark in Port Everglades, and will receive similar handling as the Grand Princess did in Oakland.

I agree with your comments. As a Floridian and a resident of Miami we cannot turn our backs on the passengers and crew of the Zaandam. The ship will have to dock somewhere. We could handle the docking the same as the Grand Princess in Oakland. Offload passengers and fly them out to their respective countries. The balance of the passengers should go in to quarantine somewhere in the U.S.

[Vict0riann]

Now that Rotterdam has caught up with Zaandam, they can head off together.  Rottie was going over 22 knots 4 hours ago, and Zaandam 20.

 

[ShipsAreTheBest]

15 minutes ago, Vict0riann said:

Talking about Rotterdam (as they are sailing in tandem, Roy, I think it is appropriate to include her in this story!), I remember once Copper John mentioning her speed - that she is able to go faster than the rest of her sisters in the fleet because she is missing something that the others have that slows them down.  Do you remember what it was?  I know she has azipods.  

Rotterdam does not have Azipods.  Amsterdam (last of the R-class ships) was the only one to get them (and first of all the ships subsequently built for HAL).  Both Rotterdam’s and Amsterdam’s greater speed comes from a slightly larger installed power plant (diesel generators) and modified hull form and design from the S-class.

[DFD1]

Sailed on them both several times. They are both great ships.

[Vict0riann]

7 minutes ago, ShipsAreTheBest said:

Rotterdam does not have Azipods.  Amsterdam (last of the R-class ships) was the only one to get them (and first of all the ships subsequently built for HAL).  Both Rotterdam’s and Amsterdam’s greater speed comes from a slightly larger installed power plant (diesel generators) and modified hull form and design from the S-class.

 

Thanks.  I remember Captain Schuchmann saying he had to go to the Netherlands to learn azipods as he was moving from Prinsendam to Amsterdam.

[zonacruiser25]

HAL is likely working diligently on arrangements for both ships.  Once they finish the dance with port authorities and government authorities I am certain we will get information form HAL or those currently on these ships.  It was gratifying to see the excitement and joy as they transited the canal.  Unfortunately the CC lawyers and other experts seem to not be able to contain themselves to out do each other with their "knowledge".  I pray for the health and saftey of all of the HAL passengers and crew and I hope that their return will be safe and all get care or quarantine or both and get home safely to families and loved ones! 

[Gracie115]

36 minutes ago, sail2day said:

I agree with your comments. As a Floridian and a resident of Miami we cannot turn our backs on the passengers and crew of the Zaandam. The ship will have to dock somewhere. We could handle the docking the same as the Grand Princess in Oakland. Offload passengers and fly them out to their respective countries. The balance of the passengers should go in to quarantine somewhere in the U.S.

 

I agree, also a Floridian.  These people have to get off these two ships. Arrangements have to be made to let them dock.

[conwakr]

Just now, AmBear said:

 

Possibly the Naval Base in Kingsbay just over the State line in Georgia, they have a lower populated area to isolate. 

 

What is the closest international airport to that base?

[AmBear]

3 minutes ago, conwakr said:

What is the closest international airport to that base?

I would guess Jacksonville, but there is a Naval airbase not that far away that might be available for use in an emergency!

Mayport has both a port and an airstrip, so that could be a possibility if they have room to isolate

Edited March 30, 2020 by AmBear

[greykitty]

Hate to say it, but how wise would it be to quarantine people on a working military base,  unless they could be totally segregated?  We've already got  naval ships with cases. I'm not talking about the units called up to directly aid with relief efforts; I'm talking about housing Covid-19 cases near or with active military.  

[2+2]

8 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

 

I agree, also a Floridian.  These people have to get off these two ships. Arrangements have to be made to let them dock.

It is what we do. And proud of it.

[LMaxwell]

I am confused by the forum.  Asking what the plan may be, or that a plan need to be in place, is met with a chorus of "You don't have facts".  Exactly.  We have not heard the plans and do not know what is going on. I don't think those shouting everyone else down is inhumane and uncaring are operating on any other facts though. This ship has not docked with guests off in 16+ days now; other than one poster vilifying Chile, no one has mentioned all other countries and states the ship has to pass other that to offer suggestions of facilities available. If the plan was for NOLA, it would be easily understood at this time why that isn't practical.  Is Texas practical?  Is Tampa practical?  We can have discussions based on best known information, and of course, some degree of speculation.  But this complete anti-Florida tone is complete nonsense and not productive.  

 

[Sunshine3601]

Maybe Galveston, TX would work?

[LMaxwell]

Since the Rendezvous and transfer operation, I believe latest update as to status of passenger was on 3/26.  Does anyone have a source as to the update information regarding # of tests, illnesses, how many transferred, etc.?  If this has been posted already it was missed in the near 50 pages this thread has become.  Thanks 

[AmBear]

2 minutes ago, greykitty said:

Hate to say it, but how wise would it be to quarantine people on a working military base,  unless they could be totally segregated?  We've already got  naval ships with cases. I'm not talking about the units called up to directly aid with relief efforts; I'm talking about housing Covid-19 cases near or with active military.  

Because of military security, and stricter controls on a military base, it would seem easier to isolate there then on a public port! Just my opinion!

[Aquahound]

1 minute ago, greykitty said:

Hate to say it, but how wise would it be to quarantine people on a working military base,  unless they could be totally segregated?  We've already got  naval ships with cases. I'm not talking about the units called up to directly aid with relief efforts; I'm talking about housing Covid-19 cases near or with active military.  

 

We set precedent with quarantine on military bases early on in this saga.  But that said, today is a different story and spare medical personnel are getting less and less.  Hospitals are overburdened, and the activation of the 2 hospital ships means as many as 2400 reserve medical personnel are on the hook for recall. 

 

What we're seeing nationwide is a fast depletion of personal protective equipment (PPE).  More are on order but they can only be produced so fast.  I'm hoping Rotterdam is an easy quarantine, but Zaandam won't be.  I'm hoping and praying they get to port soon so they can start the healing process. 

[greykitty]

3 minutes ago, AmBear said:

Because of military security, and stricter controls on a military base, it would seem easier to isolate there then on a public port! Just my opinion!

 

And if that's do-able, sounds like a great option.  I was just thinking this is not the time to expose military personnel not immediately attached to relief efforts to covid-19 if we cannot pretty much guarantee the safety of the military.  Thanks for letting me know if might be something that can be accomplished.

[Vict0riann]

16 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Since the Rendezvous and transfer operation, I believe latest update as to status of passenger was on 3/26.  Does anyone have a source as to the update information regarding # of tests, illnesses, how many transferred, etc.?  If this has been posted already it was missed in the near 50 pages this thread has become.  Thanks 

 

No news from HAL on the blog since the 28th, just thanks to Panama for letting them use the Canal.  Did you see Mr. Ashford's talk to the Zaandam passengers?

 

Here:  https://www.hollandamerica.com/blog/ships/ms-zaandam/statement-regarding-zaandam/

 

I just saw this on a CNN news item:  A total of 189 people -- 73 guests and 116 crew members -- on board the Zaandam are suffering from flu-like symptoms as of late Sunday night, according to a statement from Holland America.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Vict0riann

[greykitty]

In Illinois, over 500 recently retired medical personnel have responded to the governor's request for assistance.  I understand they'll be assigned to non-covid-19 front line efforts (tele-medicine and other areas) to help relieve a bit of the pressure on healthcare.  I've read the same has occurred in NY and CA, as well as globally.

 

I believe I've read the Guard has been called up in certain areas, and military personnel who recently left the service are being alerted to call-back.   That's why I was a little hesitant about how easy it is to punt back to the military in some of these cruise ship cases.