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Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)


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52 minutes ago, Max2003 said:

The Z and R are flying in tight formation 2 NM apart,  However their bearing now seems to indicate that they will pass west of Jamaica and proceed to the opening between Haiti and Cuba.  But, but that puts them passing - wait for it -Guantanamo. Hmm!    

On a more serious note, that might signal resolution of where they will land.  That is them in the lower left off Nicaragua.  They are so close that they appear as one.

image.thumb.png.d9da218300f3aa6b400dc886b2480958.png

 

 

 

Going for the Windward Passage, it seems, passing south of Gitmo

 

File:Windward passage.svg

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27 minutes ago, npcl said:

Well the cruise line does have medical staff from their ships that could be used.  With minimal staffing they could reduce medical staffing to minimum.  With the ships close together near each near Princess Cay they could even share medical staff reducing even further.  Then use that staff to provide medical support for the hotel.

 

18 minutes ago, Host Anne said:

You still have to feed people, keep the facility clean, security, etc.  It's more than just medical staff.  I'm not saying it could or couldn't be done; it's just a bit more complicated than opening a closed hotel.

 

In addition to what Anne said above, can the medical staff from the ships work on land?  They would have to be licensed by the State to perform their duties, would they not?

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18 minutes ago, AlanF65 said:

And this, for me, is the crux of the problem:

"And we need confirmation from a port that is willing to extend the same compassion and grace that Panama did, and allow us to come in so our guests can go straight to the airport for flights home."

They do need a port, and very soon. However, I sincerely hope that comes with either quarantine or the requirement that people have a negative test before they're sent out into the airport to stream across the world. 

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2 minutes ago, arabrab said:

And this, for me, is the crux of the problem:

"And we need confirmation from a port that is willing to extend the same compassion and grace that Panama did, and allow us to come in so our guests can go straight to the airport for flights home."

They do need a port, and very soon. However, I sincerely hope that comes with either quarantine or the requirement that people have a negative test before they're sent out into the airport to stream across the world. 

 

I found it ironic that he praised Panama for their "compassion" when Panama would not let them disembark, only cross the canal with everyone sequestered inside their cabins.  CCL is after all a Panamanian Company.

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2 hours ago, capriccio said:

The Sun-Sentinel (Fort Lauderdale) has just published an opinion piece by the HAL president entitled:  Holland America president issues plea on behalf of those stranded at sea

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/fl-op-com-zaandam-holland-america-plea-20200330-2mw56itc65dbvk2kicyvcv4fhi-story.html

It's a must read.  It has information that makes the whole endeavor even more tragic. 

 

I believe that after this pandemic subsides, the international maritime community must have a serious conversation about ships that need and request safe harbor, and subsequently,  from those conversations, policy changes must be made. After the Titantic disaster, new regulations that we use today were put in place. The same must come from this; it cannot be allowed to happen again.      

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1 hour ago, npcl said:

Well the cruise line does have medical staff from their ships that could be used.  With minimal staffing they could reduce medical staffing to minimum.  With the ships close together near each near Princess Cay they could even share medical staff reducing even further.  Then use that staff to provide medical support for the hotel.

The medical staff are not usually from the US and would not have a license to practice here.  EM

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1 minute ago, DAllenTCY said:

Florida is the "Cruise Capital of the World".

 

They will figure this out in the coming days.

 

David

 

 

 

 

I agree somehow this has to be handled.  Lots of moving parts and scared people everywhere on land and at sea.  My hope is they get them in somewhere quick.

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There is also Savannah...  We don't have a passenger terminal but there would be places to dock.  Both ships could fit under the Talmadge Bridge to the turning basin.  We have an airport, not really international but could be used for charters.  They built a 'new' terminal for the 1996 Olympics, and for a time used the old terminal for charters.  Not sure if they still do that, couldn't tell from Google Earth...  We also have a large army airfield in Savannah (Hunter Army Airfield) that they might negotiate to use for charters.  We also have three large hospitals/medical centers.  Although we do have COVID-19 it is not yet a large number.  EM

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5 minutes ago, babydaryl24 said:

I didn't realize there were already deaths. I just read the Orlando Sentinel article. This is so tragic and heartbreaking.

Is anyone live tweeting from the ship or anything?

There have not been any known death since the rendezvous with the Rotterdam.  I expect without the Rotterdam's resources the toll would now be much higher.  Dockman has a brother who has been transferred to the Rotterdam and has posted comments he received from his brother.

 

Roy

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7 minutes ago, babydaryl24 said:

I didn't realize there were already deaths. I just read the Orlando Sentinel article. This is so tragic and heartbreaking.

Is anyone live tweeting from the ship or anything?

Yes there are on Twitter.

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"There are 1,243 passengers aboard the Zaandam, including 305 U.S. citizens and 247 Canadians. There are 49 Florida residents on board, including several Broward County residents"

 

On Zaandam - see above - when she left Buenos Aires however, those numbers have changed since her rendezvous with Rotterdam off Panama, and the latter taking on a number of Zaandam's pax

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2 hours ago, Sea Viewer said:

Crew members from Oasis of the Seas were brought into Port Everglades by lifeboat. ? will be medevaced may have  Covid 19.Oasis was not allowed to enter port. Similar procedure to crew evacs from 2 Costa ships to Miami last week.

 

Also Symphony of the Seas today had evac in same manner 

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241637751.html

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2 hours ago, rafinmd said:

San Antonio, Chile.  Somehow an old destination got re-entered.

 

Roy

 

It's some sort of weirdness. Last night their destination switched back and forth several times between US PEF and CL SAI depending on how far in I zoomed.

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1 hour ago, AlanF65 said:

Thank you for sharing that. It is well written and one can sense the humanity infused in the words.

 

HAL would be well served to publicly offer solutions if they are appealing to the public to rally in their support.  Yes, they are in negotiations and probably do not want to get hopes up too high,. Whether it be Port Everglades, Tampa, Jacksonville, a military base, or any other place, is Mr. Ashford considering the infrastructure and its ability to meet the needs? Is Mr. Ashford coordinating charter busses and planes? Possibly; but if so this needs to be communicated to the public to calm their concerns.  Mr. Ashford isn't appealing to the average CC reader. 

 

Certainly the governor, a Yale and Harvard Law grad, could have been a bit more eloquent in his appraisal of the situation. Both sides are stoking fires of emotion; when cold facts and decisive leadership is required. By this time tomorrow we should know a lot more about potential plans and what permissions are being offered. 

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1 hour ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

You make some good and valid points, thanks!

 

Look, no one is saying this, if approved by the politicians, will be an easy operation and yes, it is a different and more complex situation than the one involving GP in Oakland on March 9 (and subsequent days) It will take planning, dedicated people and the successful carrying out of a mission. 

 

Yes, Grand Princess was sent to an unused terminal in Oakland's outer harbor. It seems to me that berth 29 at Port Everglades, only used by cruise ships when PE is having a busy day, and located south of the more commonly used berth 26, could be used for this purpose. Not far behind #29 is the southport turning notch, another possibility. If you look on the ptz webcam AIS map, the Yorktown Express, a container ship is moored there as we speak

 

3500.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=296ae7fbf53c4ae65d9c46e21e8db7c9

 

As I stated from my box, a major event like this will require collaboration between numerous parties; HAL, local, county, state and federal governments, incl. all the governments representing the various nations from where ZADM and RTDMs pax hail. Like Grand Princess, charter (or military) aircraft need to be obtained to get those non-U.S. folks home for further treatment and/or, at a minimum, two weeks worth of quarantine.  If you don't want to use a commercial airport like FLL or MIA to get the foreign nationals home, bus those folks to a military air base and use it, there are several in Florida. 

 

The nine (latest count) confirmed COVID-19 patients need a medical facility with staff and equipment to treat them. Btw, Grand Princess had twenty-one (2 pax & 19 crew) confirmed COVID-19 cases when she docked in Oakland.

 

Homestead Air Reserve Base, FL (Miami-Dade County) is a prime candidate to serve as the "Travis AFB for South Florida." Lackland AFB/Joint Base San Antonio, TX, used for Grand Princess pax, is closer to FLL than it is to Oakland, CA. Dobbins Air Reserve Base, GA  (Marietta, GA) also used for GP pax, is a heck of a lot closer to FLL then it is to Oakland. That leaves a replacement for MCAS Miramar, CA (San Diego), the fourth military installation used for GP passengers. Well, the jarheads, those men and women with a "can do" attitude, happen to have two air stations (Cherry Point and Beaufort) as well as a gigantic base (Camp Lejeune) in both North and South Carolina. AGain, this will take planning and preparation. The longer they, the people that will make the decisions, wait, the longer the hardship for the pax, and crew, of Zaandam and Rotterdam.

 

I fully agree with the last sentence in your post! 

 

Stay safe!

 

 

The bases that have been used for quarantine have been active duty bases, with base hospitals, lots of support resources.  Homestead does not have much of either. It would probably be easier to use a hotel than to try and use Homestead.

 

Plus right now not sure how much of the military resources are being used by deployments to several cities for mobile hospitals. Plus you are starting to get cases showing up on military facilities and ships. Both Carriers is the western pacific are now showing cases.

 

Any resources are going to be competing with local needs.  Unfortunately things have changed rather dramatically since the Grand incident and not for the better.

 

HAL might need to ask what they can do to help solve the issue and reduce the scope of the problem.  If they can test those that are not showing symptoms then they might be able to get those people off to self quarantine.  Especially if they have antibody tests. They could offer to charter planes to get them to their home states/countries.

 

That would reduce the number of passengers to those testing positive and those showing symptoms. Reducing the overall scope.  

 

Still not clear if they have fully tested all of those showing symptoms or only the very serious cases.

 

 

I think they might need to do more this time,  If they offer to do so they might have a better luck getting a positive response.

 

For that matter a large number of the ill are crew members.  What is HALs plan for them?  

 

 

Edited by npcl
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2 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

 

In addition to what Anne said above, can the medical staff from the ships work on land?  They would have to be licensed by the State to perform their duties, would they not?

 

Some states have already waived that requirement (partially or entirely) for medical personnel licensed in good standing somewhere else. Other states are in the process of doing so.

 

Florida waived it for health care professionals working for the Red Cross or the DOH. They have to be licensed in good standing in any state, territory, or district, working not to exceed 30 days.

 

Current state by state status as of 30 March 2020.

http://www.fsmb.org/siteassets/advocacy/pdf/state-emergency-declarations-licensures-requirementscovid-19.pdf

 

Edited by Cruising Is Bliss
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Has there been any discussion of consideration of housing, for the purpose of quarantine, these passengers on the empty HAL ships just sitting at anchor offshore?  Yes, they will need crews and medical personnel, supplies, etc. but the whole operation could be kept in-house, so to speak.  No need to bring anyone ashore until either past their quarantine time or beyond the level of care that can be provided on a ship.  If crew members have been used to take meals to staterooms, why not use crew to ferry whatever or whoever is needed to these ships?  Use maybe more than one idle ship in order to spread out the numbers, social distancing.

Edited by beach spring
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4 hours ago, capriccio said:

The Sun-Sentinel (Fort Lauderdale) has just published an opinion piece by the HAL president entitled:  Holland America president issues plea on behalf of those stranded at sea

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/fl-op-com-zaandam-holland-america-plea-20200330-2mw56itc65dbvk2kicyvcv4fhi-story.html

 

Unfortunately the article is hidden behind a pay wall...

Do you have a simple synopsis of the article?

Or is this the same as what was posted on the HAL Blog?

Edited by Von & John
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All the "new" hospitals are simply replacing the hospital beds being used for Covid in existing hospitals---they are not exposing anyone that doesn't need to be in the area to this virus.   The field hospitals will serve regular services for ongoing medical needs (ER's, heart attacks, accidents, etc......) all elective procedures have been cancelled/postponed.   My regular appt with a doctor was a phone call today..........I suspect Texas does not have the same procedures in place...............

Edited by thyme2go
wording
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  • CCHelp changed the title to Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)
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