MSC resume cruising

[Denarius]

22 hours ago, Britboys said:

Yes, we all have to make our own decision on this. On P&O, I am usually sailing solo and in an inside cabin. Additionally, a big part of my cruise enjoyment is meeting many different people to socialise with. Consequently, I am unlikely to cruise whilst such restrictions are in place.

I agree. As a solo cruiser my enjoyment on cruises comes from wandering around independently in (hopefully) interesting ports during the day, and socialising onboard at and after dinner. If the restrictions imposed by the cruise line meant that either of these pleasures were to be denied to me, I would not cruise.

[AnnieC]

23 minutes ago, Denarius said:

I agree. As a solo cruiser my enjoyment on cruises comes from wandering around independently in (hopefully) interesting ports during the day, and socialising onboard at and after dinner. If the restrictions imposed by the cruise line meant that either of these pleasures were to be denied to me, I would not cruise.

So do I. I've yet to cruise as a solo, but was just coming round to the idea when the virus appeared. The thought of talking to myself, eating alone etc. for a fortnight is deeply unappealing - I can do that at home.😕

[Captain_Morgan]

https://www.france24.com/en/20200817-passengers-brave-covid-19-risk-as-cruises-return-to-europe?ref=tw_i&fbclid=IwAR2Zx832RAPlaC5DSCKiIQW-gLgczZCbUc2edr1eN3LZip9zi12HMYlB0aI

[Adawn47]

11 hours ago, wowzz said:

I'm out and on my boat!

Seriously, the number of people dying from CV19 is minute. More people will die from falling off ladders!

Obviously a personal choice, but I'm not going to spend the next few years living in fear,  when all the facts show that CV19 is causing virtually no premature deaths, whilst cancers, heart attacks, etc are far more dangerous.

Once again, sorry to be boring, if you are in good health, not obese, and not bame, CV19 will not kill you. 

Bojo did a good job in instilling the fear of God into  to everyone.  Unfortunately it is more difficult  to turn this paranoia around.

It is very unlikely you will catch CV19.  If you do catch it, it is very unlikely that you will be ill. If you are ill, it us unlikely that you will be seriously ill. If you are seriously ill, it is unlikely that you will need to go to hospital etc etc.

More people were killed in car crashes today than were killed by CV19. How many people who are worried about CV19 will quite happily travel in a car? 

Makes me laugh when someone drives 10 miles to the shops, and then worries about one person not wearing a mask!

 

 

I agree with you about the paranoia, and I know that's a problem I having at the moment that I'm trying very hard to overcome. I wouldn't say I'm obese, more what Frank likes to call 'cuddly'.Bless him🥰. I'm 73 with high BP and asthma, so I'm understandably a little wary. I've not curtailed my normal routine, only meeting up with my friend once a week for a coffee, and that's because she is still shielding due to her age, 84, and she also has many underlying health issues. I just have can't relax when I'm out, but I'm working on it.😷

I hope you're enjoying you're solo cruise and try to dock at Salcombe. I'll ask Jean to look out for you.⛵

Avril

[Adawn47]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Yes there were excess deaths and most were probably linked to Covid19.  However if you look at the data now, the trend is well below the annual average, which in my simplistic view is because many terminally ill elderly died a little earlier than they probably would have, and it's very likely that by year end that 65000 figure will be much lower.

I hope you'll forgive me for saying this John, but I personally think that was a cold statement. Everyone who has lost someone, whether covid related or not, would have liked a little more time with their loved one, and not be lumped together as and unfortunate Covid 19 'statistic'. I know that wasn't how you mean't it , but that's how it came across.

Avril

[Dermotsgirl]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Yes there were excess deaths and most were probably linked to Covid19.  However if you look at the data now, the trend is well below the annual average, which in my simplistic view is because many terminally ill elderly died a little earlier than they probably would have, and it's very likely that by year end that 65000 figure will be much lower.

I’ve just checked the ONS figures, and the latest week available (7 Aug) says that deaths were 1.7% below the 5 year average. 
 

if the huge spike in April/May was ‘just’ the elderly dying a few months early, shouldn’t we now be experiencing a massive downward spike? Much more than 1.7% below average. 

[Dermotsgirl]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

But that was April, not now.

 

In March we only had a few deaths, and look what happened.

 

i thought, as a Society we would have learned from that, which is why most of us are doing everything that is asked of us, in order to stop it happening again. 
 

[wowzz]

6 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

In March we only had a few deaths, and look what happened.

 

i thought, as a Society we would have learned from that, which is why most of us are doing everything that is asked of us, in order to stop it happening again. 
 

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be taking sensible precautions.

The point that some of us  here are pointing out, is that there still seems to be too much emphasis on CV19 deaths. 

The BBC gives a daily record of CV19 deaths (usually in single figures) -why?

Perhaps they should also inform us as to how many are dying each day due to not being treated for cancer, heart attacks etc back in March and April. The number will be considerably higher than the current CV19 rate.

[Dermotsgirl]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be taking sensible precautions.

The point that some of us  here are pointing out, is that there still seems to be too much emphasis on CV19 deaths. 

The BBC gives a daily record of CV19 deaths (usually in single figures) -why?

Perhaps they should also inform us as to how many are dying each day due to not being treated for cancer, heart attacks etc back in March and April. The number will be considerably higher than the current CV19 rate.

I think they need to be giving daily COVID19 figures to remind people that this Is an ongoing situation and isn’t over.

 

I believe that there will be people who didn’t get treatment for other conditions who may well die needlessly. I think these figures will become more apparent later on in the months to come, as we don’t currently appear to have  have a spike in cancer deaths for example.

 

However, cancer and heart attacks aren’t infectious. We can try to live a healthy lifestyle to reduce our chances of getting these diseases. This is a long term aim.

 

But COVID19 is highly infectious and we can all take immediate action now to protect ourselves and each other. That’s why we need that constant reminder of how we are doing, in order for us to keep focussed. 
 

That’s what I think, anyway 

[Adawn47]

7 minutes ago, wowzz said:

The point that some of us  here are pointing out, is that there still seems to be too much emphasis on CV19 deaths. 

It's not the deaths that are worrying me, it's the increase in cases. That is why we're seeing local lockdowns, which if not careful, will lead us all back to square one again. 

Avril

[Snow Hill]

58 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I think they need to be giving daily COVID19 figures to remind people that this Is an ongoing situation and isn’t over.

 

I believe that there will be people who didn’t get treatment for other conditions who may well die needlessly. I think these figures will become more apparent later on in the months to come, as we don’t currently appear to have  have a spike in cancer deaths for example.

 

However, cancer and heart attacks aren’t infectious. We can try to live a healthy lifestyle to reduce our chances of getting these diseases. This is a long term aim.

 

But COVID19 is highly infectious and we can all take immediate action now to protect ourselves and each other. That’s why we need that constant reminder of how we are doing, in order for us to keep focussed. 
 

That’s what I think, anyway 

You can find the stats here

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

 

or here

 

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

 

 

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Adawn47 said:

I hope you'll forgive me for saying this John, but I personally think that was a cold statement. Everyone who has lost someone, whether covid related or not, would have liked a little more time with their loved one, and not be lumped together as and unfortunate Covid 19 'statistic'. I know that wasn't how you mean't it , but that's how it came across.

Avril

Avril, I was certainly not trying to downplay the number of deaths and the pain they inflicted on families, even where they were probably expected. I was just trying to highlight how they might have skewed the statistics, making them appear far worse than they may become, when viewed over a longer timescale.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Adawn47 said:

It's not the deaths that are worrying me, it's the increase in cases. That is why we're seeing local lockdowns, which if not careful, will lead us all back to square one again. 

Avril

Avril, the BBC one o'clock news explained why we should not worry unduly about the increasing infection rates due to testing. The figures are being inflated because of the much higher level of hotspot testing. They also highlighted that ONS figure of infections has leveled off at about 25000 cases, and this is based on a much wider random survey, which the ONS believe is far more accurate.

[kalos]

30 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

You can find the stats here

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

 

or here

 

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

 

 

For a more local view of what's happening  I prefer this map

 https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/coronavirus-where-you-live-check-the-number-of-cases-in-your-area-with-our-interactive-map

 

Simply zoom the map in/out and click on your town 

[SarahHben]

On the Gov UK site that Snow Hill posted a link  to, you can scroll down to Lower tier LA and it gives numbers for a more local area rather  than a whole county, plus it gives you the rate of cases for every 100,00 people in the local area. 

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I’ve just checked the ONS figures, and the latest week available (7 Aug) says that deaths were 1.7% below the 5 year average. 
 

if the huge spike in April/May was ‘just’ the elderly dying a few months early, shouldn’t we now be experiencing a massive downward spike? Much more than 1.7% below average. 

The percentage figure may be small but in the last 2 months this totals about 2500 less deaths than the 5 year average.

[davecttr]

2 hours ago, Snow Hill said:

You can find the stats here

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

 

or here

 

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

 

 

The BBC did an item on government figures a few days ago, it appears that the 28 day period may be under reporting the number of deaths. The new 60 day figure is better, I think because it includes those who did not die until day 29 etc. Anyway it will take several months to see which is more accurate.

[Adawn47]

1 hour ago, SarahHben said:

On the Gov UK site that Snow Hill posted a link  to, you can scroll down to Lower tier LA and it gives numbers for a more local area rather  than a whole county, plus it gives you the rate of cases for every 100,00 people in the local area. 

That's the one I use. 

Avril

[Denarius]

5 hours ago, AnnieC said:

So do I. I've yet to cruise as a solo, but was just coming round to the idea when the virus appeared. The thought of talking to myself, eating alone etc. for a fortnight is deeply unappealing - I can do that at home.😕

Under normal circumstances Annie, cruising is an ideal holiday for those who choose or are compelled by circunstances to travel alone.

I started cruising with my late partner in the 1990s, and carried on after their death because I knew that it enabled me to explore abroad independently whilst still having some social interaction. In particular, it meant that I could dine in company every evening, and at breakfast and lunch should I so choose, rather than doing so alone in a hotel or restaurant. I would not want to go on a cruise holiday if it meant eating on my own at all times, at a table for one or worse still in my cabin. Nor would I accept being confined to the ship except if on a ship's tour (sorry, shore experience!) when as a hotel based tourist I could go out where and when I chose.

So don't give up on the idea of cruising; just wait until things return to something approaching normality.

[Bazrat]

After watching a YouTube video by Emma cruises on what MSC are doing to get cruising started again we would be more than happy to cruise now, from the buffet we’re everything is behind glass to the social distancing on board and only cruising at 70% and the testing they are doing look really good.

 

[jeanlyon]

3 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Avril, the BBC one o'clock news explained why we should not worry unduly about the increasing infection rates due to testing. The figures are being inflated because of the much higher level of hotspot testing. They also highlighted that ONS figure of infections has leveled off at about 25000 cases, and this is based on a much wider random survey, which the ONS believe is far more accurate.

And that is presumably why the number of cases in the States has declined because they are not testing as much thanks to a certain person.

[molecrochip]

This is positive cases as a proportion of tests done.

You'll  note that actually, very little change since the start of July. This is despite:

• Increased foreign travel
• Decreased lockdown

The only difference is that our sample size has gone up. (i.e. number of tests).

 

When you take this together with the fact that the number of Covid-19 ventilated patients has remained well below 100 for some weeks now (did go as low as 56, but is currently around 70), the death rate, even using the old method remains the lowest it has been on a rolling average, and our death rate on the new method is comparable with the rest of Europe as they eased lockdown, it says that we're not doing too badly.

 

But the government will not say that, as it will cause people to become complacent. 

[Bazrat]

I think we should have a COVID thread and keep this thread just for the original topic

[molecrochip]

15 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

And that is presumably why the number of cases in the States has declined because they are not testing as much thanks to a certain person.

 

Percentage of test confirmed as positive. UK v US rolling 7 day average.

 

 

Since the start of the pandemic, the UK and US have tested, on average, the same proportion of the population. Both countries have carried out 224,000 tests per 1m population. Please note that is not 224k unique people per million as many will have had multiple tests.

[molecrochip]

17 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

I think we should have a COVID thread and keep this thread just for the original topic

I do agree but then no one gives a t055 on other threads such as Iona construction either. So it appears the forum is now a free-for-all. That said, most cruising related topics are coronavirus influenced at present so not unrelated.