UK Gov set to ease measures

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Some people cruise for the ship.

 

Some people cruise for the destinations

 

Some for both.

 

Cruise lines advertise cruises as both, a way to see the world with no unpacking,  and a great destination in itself.

 

If there are significant barriers or costs in disembarking that weren't there when you booked, a cruise line must offer a refund in  full .  Some will take it some will be happy to  cruise what ever the restrictions. 

I'd totally agree with you, but I think it will take legal action before any cruuse line offers you a refund.

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I'd totally agree with you, but I think it will take legal action before any cruuse line offers you a refund.

Not necessarily.  Several of us can testify that cruise companies, faced with a strong case and the certainty of a case going to court, with the attendant publicity, will settle with a non disclosure agreement. 

[terrierjohn]

25 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I'd totally agree with you, but I think it will take legal action before any cruuse line offers you a refund.

P&O have been very specific about their T&Cs from the beginning of the pandemic, as we know only too well, we transferred our already fully paid April cruise the day before the lockdown was announced and P&O announced the first phase pf cancellations. P&O T&Cs at the point we cancelled gave a refund under their normal cancellation terms, plus a FCC for the normally lost percentage, or you could transfer to a new booking, which we did, but only after cancelling one we already had, and rebooking at a new price. 

The following day you could have a full refund, or a FCC for 125% value, but despite our cancellation being only the day before the more favourable terms, they refused to allow us to have the higher FCC value.  At the end of the day they have granted us a FCC for the lost deposit on our original Feb 21 cruise, which we cancelled and rebooked, which probably they did not really need to under the T&Cs at the time.

So I would assume that if and when they decide to revert back to their more normal T&Cs, or a variation thereof, it will apply immediately and no notice will be given, and as wowzz says they will dig their heels in, unless or until someone with deep pockets sues them, and even then I imagine they will employ lots of delaying tactics, and despite Harry's previous experience I doubt they will offer anything, even under an NDC.

Edited October 28, 2020 by terrierjohn

[wowzz]

It is very evident from the official P&O social media page that P&O are playing the CV19 card for all it is worth when people complain about having to take official tours, and not being allowed to cancel their cruise.

I guess that the impact on the bottom line if people are allowed to cancel due to this issue, is too big for P&O to contemplate.  Yes, they may cave in after a lengthy period, to one or two  persistent litigants, but I imagine that by playing a "long game " they imagine that they will just wear down the vast majority of complainers.

[Dermotsgirl]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

It is very evident from the official P&O social media page that P&O are playing the CV19 card for all it is worth when people complain about having to take official tours, and not being allowed to cancel their cruise.

I guess that the impact on the bottom line if people are allowed to cancel due to this issue, is too big for P&O to contemplate.  Yes, they may cave in after a lengthy period, to one or two  persistent litigants, but I imagine that by playing a "long game " they imagine that they will just wear down the vast majority of complainers.

I agree. 
Although people understand the need for the protocols, it makes for an unattractive holiday experience, and if they permitted refunds for this, there’d be a flood of people asking for their money back. If echoed across the Carnival brand, this would have a serious impact on their ability to survive.

 

Each day, the Covid situation seems to get worse. When this thread was started, it was just about feasible that some limited cruising could start in the spring, but it looks less and less likely as each day goes past.

 

Next year could bring even more unwelcome news about our favourite cruiselines, I’m afraid. 

[No pager thank you]

10 hours ago, wowzz said:

It is very evident from the official P&O social media page that P&O are playing the CV19 card for all it is worth when people complain about having to take official tours, and not being allowed to cancel their cruise.

I guess that the impact on the bottom line if people are allowed to cancel due to this issue, is too big for P&O to contemplate.  Yes, they may cave in after a lengthy period, to one or two  persistent litigants, but I imagine that by playing a "long game " they imagine that they will just wear down the vast majority of complainers.

Reading this post, it just makes me reflect on why so many passengers appear to be feverishly waiting for the Summer 2022 brochure.  There appears to be little genuine excitement around itineraries and price is still unknown.

 

Yes, we all want something positive to look forward to, but surely the best strategy is to wait and see what happens and not book early on this occasion, or book with another company, or book another type of holiday?  Why rush to trade in your FCC?

 

If new bookings reduce markedly then the policy will change, probably slowly, but change it will.  That's the much quicker route to a better deal for P&O's customers.

Edited October 29, 2020 by No pager thank you
Typo

[Eddie99]

1 hour ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I agree. 
Although people understand the need for the protocols, it makes for an unattractive holiday experience, and if they permitted refunds for this, there’d be a flood of people asking for their money back. If echoed across the Carnival brand, this would have a serious impact on their ability to survive.

 

Each day, the Covid situation seems to get worse. When this thread was started, it was just about feasible that some limited cruising could start in the spring, but it looks less and less likely as each day goes past.

 

Next year could bring even more unwelcome news about our favourite cruiselines, I’m afraid. 

Yes - just a week since this fairly upbeat post appeared.

 

I hear more and more politicians and scientists speaking of March before they foresee any improvements.  (I also accept that there is talk of a vaccine by Christmas.  Well, how wonderful that would be - I won’t be holding my breath though)

 

I fear for the future of cruising but as I said when this thing was just starting to be discussed - it might turn out that cruising is the least of our worries.  
 

If only we could be confident that our politicians, of all stripes, were up to the job of preparing for a very different future than we all envisaged

 

Sorry.  Gloomy post.  Blame the rain!

 

 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, No pager thank you said:

Reading this post, it just makes me reflect on why so many passengers appear to be feverishly waiting for the Summer 2022 brochure.  There appears to be little genuine excitement around itineraries and price is still unknown.

 

Yes, we all want something positive to look forward to, but surely the best strategy is to wait and see what happens and not book early on this occasion, or book with another company, or book another type of holiday?  Why rush to trade in your FCC?

 

If new bookings reduce markedly then the policy will change, probably slowly, but change it will.  That's the much quicker route to a better deal for P&O's customers.

Unfortunately there are some of us who need accessible cabins who cannot afford to wait for the bargains you predict, if we are to secure a cruise for summer 2022.

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I agree. 
Although people understand the need for the protocols, it makes for an unattractive holiday experience, and if they permitted refunds for this, there’d be a flood of people asking for their money back. If echoed across the Carnival brand, this would have a serious impact on their ability to survive.

 

Each day, the Covid situation seems to get worse. When this thread was started, it was just about feasible that some limited cruising could start in the spring, but it looks less and less likely as each day goes past.

 

Next year could bring even more unwelcome news about our favourite cruiselines, I’m afraid. 

+1

[Peanut006]

50 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Unfortunately there are some of us who need accessible cabins who cannot afford to wait for the bargains you predict, if we are to secure a cruise for summer 2022.

I know what you mean, I booked Celebrity Edge for Feb 22 in April 20 and most of them were already booked, I was lucky to get a cabin

 

Michelle

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, Eddie99 said:

Yes - just a week since this fairly upbeat post appeared.

 

I hear more and more politicians and scientists speaking of March before they foresee any improvements.  (I also accept that there is talk of a vaccine by Christmas.  Well, how wonderful that would be - I won’t be holding my breath though)

 

I fear for the future of cruising but as I said when this thing was just starting to be discussed - it might turn out that cruising is the least of our worries.  
 

If only we could be confident that our politicians, of all stripes, were up to the job of preparing for a very different future than we all envisaged

 

Sorry.  Gloomy post.  Blame the rain!

 

 

I’d blame certain politicians for the false optimism spread about a few months back without any basis. All over by Christmas, licked within three months - that sort of rubbish.

 

A bit of honesty and a heap more action would have helped a lot more.

[No pager thank you]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Unfortunately there are some of us who need accessible cabins who cannot afford to wait for the bargains you predict, if we are to secure a cruise for summer 2022.

My hope is that anyone booking a cruise in summer 2022, for whatever reason, is able to enjoy a good holiday when the time arrives. 

 

It is a shame that passengers who do require to book accessibility cabins are required to make reservations so far in advance because the provision of such facilities is relatively low compared with the size of the ships, and contrasts adversely with the proportion of people who need these facilities to allow them to enjoy a cruise ship holiday.

 

Clearly accessibility cabins are made available on most lines but the dates where bookings are available will vary.  This means that prospective passengers are faced with the difficult choice of booking a cruise which could (we don't know yet) represent poor value for money, because they can't know the range available from other lines.  The eventual experience, hopefully not, may also be poor, but the T&C's will most likely be inflexible.

 

We also have similar (not the same) restrictions on bookings that we can make, but as I say, I'd rather miss out than make bookings in the present climate with a company where the current approach to customer service is far from industry leading to put it mildly.

[Windsurfboy]

18 hours ago, wowzz said:

It is very evident from the official P&O social media page that P&O are playing the CV19 card for all it is worth when people complain about having to take official tours, and not being allowed to cancel their cruise.

I guess that the impact on the bottom line if people are allowed to cancel due to this issue, is too big for P&O to contemplate.  Yes, they may cave in after a lengthy period, to one or two  persistent litigants, but I imagine that by playing a "long game " they imagine that they will just wear down the vast majority of complainers.

 

What we need is someone to take them to the small claims court, but they won't be able to do this until  protocols are confirmed for their cruise and they are told they can't get a refund if forced to take official tours or stay on board.

 

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

What we need is someone to take them to the small claims court, but they won't be able to do this until  protocols are confirmed for their cruise and they are told they can't get a refund if forced to take official tours or stay on board.

 

On past history, they’ll settle on a non-disclosure basis before the hearing to avoid the publicity. That’s just the way they operate.

[molecrochip]

Mid February takes us 3.5 months further on. If you argue that the current status of wave 2 is at a similar point to wave 1 in mid march, that means that mid-February should have early July style outcomes.

 

With full pre-embarkation testing, you could probably have done cruises to nowhere/the UK under July conditions.

 

I'm not adjusting for the winter or higher incidence of wave 2 as I would then need to adjust for the medics understanding more, the  test & trace system being in place and PPE & covid protocols being in place.

 

In a pandemic, 3 months is a very long time.

[cruisenewbie1976]

50 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Mid February takes us 3.5 months further on. If you argue that the current status of wave 2 is at a similar point to wave 1 in mid march, that means that mid-February should have early July style outcomes.

 

With full pre-embarkation testing, you could probably have done cruises to nowhere/the UK under July conditions.

 

I'm not adjusting for the winter or higher incidence of wave 2 as I would then need to adjust for the medics understanding more, the  test & trace system being in place and PPE & covid protocols being in place.

 

In a pandemic, 3 months is a very long time.

We should also know a lot more about a vaccine by the new year. And whilst it'll take a while to get the vulnerable/anyone else vaccinated, we'll hopefully have some sort of timeline. 

[Roger88]

I doubt they will ease the measures. Maybe in the suburbs and the rest of the UK but not in the major cities or London for example. In any case some other minor restrictions will remain because there was no sign of the pandemic going down

[Selbourne]

13 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

On past history, they’ll settle on a non-disclosure basis before the hearing to avoid the publicity. That’s just the way they operate.

Spot on. They tend to play hard ball and really make their customers jump through hoops to get anywhere, but perseverance pays off. Believe it or not, I have had 3 non-disclosure payments from P&O over the years. One was quite substantial, as a result of several problems experienced with an aft suite on Britannia and another (not insignificant either) was as a result of significant itinerary change (2 out of 4 ports on a 7 night Fjord cruise, resulting in no proper fjords). The former was agreed with the Customer Service Manager on board (in liaison with Southampton) and the latter pre-cruise.
 

In both cases they initially tried to deny any liability for compensation but then, after my refusing to accept their attempts to palm me off, they made offers which I rejected. They upped the offers, which I also rejected. Finally, when I said that I would peruse the matters legally they substantially upped the offers and I accepted. I didn’t need to actually commence legal action (so no costs incurred) but had to be very assertive and stand my ground, which many people would not have the stomach for (which, of course, they rely on). The third one was a bit weird as it was a relatively minor problem with a different suite and we were happy with how they dealt with the issue and at no time sought any compensation, but once it was resolved they appeared with an NDA letter and a generous payment, which rather took us by surprise. 
 

Some may wonder why I am prepared to discuss ‘non-disclosure’ agreements. Much to my amusement, the NDA’s were incorrectly worded and legally placed the onus of confidentiality on P&O and not me! I suspect that they have changed that now, as the last one was some years ago!

[joeecco]

On 10/27/2020 at 8:53 PM, joeecco said:

Aside from the tennis match above, does anyone have any info on Azura and her refit/drydock that was due in April? Will it be done before she resumes cruising? 
 

maybe @molecrochip May have some info and if so I’d be very grateful to hear it. 
 

thanks in advance 

Any news? 

[Monorail Orange]

I see the US CDC has just recinded the No Sail order.

 

I appriciate it doesn't have much of an affect over here.

[grapau27]

10 minutes ago, Monorail Orange said:

I see the US CDC has just recinded the No Sail order.

 

I appriciate it doesn't have much of an affect over here.

CDC are issuing a Conditional Sail Order.

Basically cruises will be no longer than 7 nights and most will be 3-4 night cruises.

Graham.

[terrierjohn]

15 hours ago, grapau27 said:

CDC are issuing a Conditional Sail Order.

Basically cruises will be no longer than 7 nights and most will be 3-4 night cruises.

Graham.

That's fine for the US market as that certainly seems to be the norm for most Caribbean cruises and the majority of the Alaska ones are normally 7 days.

[Selbourne]

15 hours ago, grapau27 said:

CDC are issuing a Conditional Sail Order.

Basically cruises will be no longer than 7 nights and most will be 3-4 night cruises.

Graham.

A canny move by those cruise lines. Everyone leaves the ship before becoming symptomatic, so the cruise line can say “nothing to see here” 😂 On a serious note, we will only know that cruises are Covid safe when 14/21 night cruises return with no outbreaks, as passengers on shorter cruises are unlikely to fall ill until after they have returned home. 

[grapau27]

20 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

A canny move by those cruise lines. Everyone leaves the ship before becoming symptomatic, so the cruise line can say “nothing to see here” 😂 On a serious note, we will only know that cruises are Covid safe when 14/21 night cruises return with no outbreaks, as passengers on shorter cruises are unlikely to fall ill until after they have returned home. 

That is exactly what I was thinking.

The cruises would be aimed at Coco Cay and Labadee etc the cruiselines private islands with no local inhabitants so the ships passengers would be in their own ships bubble.

[No pager thank you]

6 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

That is exactly what I was thinking.

The cruises would be aimed at Coco Cay and Labadee etc the cruiselines private islands with no local inhabitants so the ships passengers would be in their own ships bubble.

I imagine that P&O would still insist on paid for excursions even if they did own such a private island 🏝️😷🤦