CDC wants U.S. travelers not to cruise - not surprising

[quickrate]

10 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I keep in touch with dozens of crew members and most of them are having serious financial issues. No cruises for people on this board means the loss of a great vacation. No cruises for crew members means the loss of their livelihood. 

Exactly. And, so many people don't seem to realize this can be as debilitating as the virus. Here in the US, alcholoism, drug abuse, and suicides have raised 30%. I'm sure the stress the crew is feeling from no income is worse than the fear of a virus.

Pat

[PhillyFan33579]

1 hour ago, kdr69 said:

Had a page long reply to this lol but i deleted it (sorry Philly but mask "wearing" is not the issue).  As the CC Monitor said its very hard to not turn this thread into a COVID thread. I think everything we talk about is a COVID thread these days.  So I will bite my tongue again.  

No need to be sorry since the comment you quoted wasn’t mine. 

[quattrohead]

I am 100% sure that air travel contributed to the spread more than ships, starting at the tail end of 2019.

[Bevv]

Instead of considering a cruise as transportation for the purpose of this discussion I equate it closer to an all inclusive resort that has the capacity to house and feed 5k people. Obviously the resort has more open spaces and more opportunity to distance but people go in and out of the resort, eating and drinking onsite and going to shows or other activities. People stay at the all inclusives for a much longer period of time than they would be on a plane and have the opportunity to interact multiple times with people during that period.  

[firefly333]

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Masks and social distancing do slow down the virus and would save many thousands of lives. Period.

Since you quoted me with this reply when I mentioned el paso and being on the border.

 

I just listened to the mayor of el paso who broke down things done of those testing positive. Mostly 40 and younger, 27% traveled to mexico. 

 

Bingo. I'd say this is the answer, not they arent wearing masks.

 

Makes me want to cruise to mexico, yikes. 

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, quickrate said:

Exactly. And, so many people don't seem to realize this can be as debilitating as the virus. Here in the US, alcholoism, drug abuse, and suicides have raised 30%. I'm sure the stress the crew is feeling from no income is worse than the fear of a virus.

Pat

Good pts. Also the education of our kids. They gave a estimate of lost earning power our kids have due to us shutting them down. 1500 scientists or doctors have now banned together saying economic shutdown hurts worse than the virus.

[Host Carolyn]

******* This has gone way off but is still respectful so am leaving for now as the ONE thread on this meandering trail. Thank you in advance for keeping it a discussion, not an argument. One rule stays:  No politics!!!!!!!!!**********

 

Thank you for not making me regret doing this.😕

Edited October 27, 2020 by Host Carolyn

[PhillyFan33579]

34 minutes ago, Host Carolyn said:

******* This has gone way off but is still respectful so am leaving for now as the ONE thread on this meandering trail. Thank you in advance for keeping it a discussion, not an argument. One rule stays:  No politics!!!!!!!!!**********

 

Thank you for not making me regret doing this.😕

I understand your point about no politics, even though it is easy to go there which many people have done, including me. But I find it ironic that on a site dedicated to cruising,  we can’t talk about the ONE thing that is likely to determine if there is going to be a cruise industry in the future in the US. Unfortunately science is not going to determine if/when cruising resumes from US ports. 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

Good pts. Also the education of our kids. They gave a estimate of lost earning power our kids have due to us shutting them down. 1500 scientists or doctors have now banned together saying economic shutdown hurts worse than the virus.

I would think economists might be the preferred experts when it comes to the economy, if they can stick to facts.

 

Many businesses are open but still failing because customers know better than to go out unless they absolutely need to. When there is a covid outbreak at a business, there are still protocols to follow.

 

Any kind of natural herd immunity is likely impossible, since any immunity appears to weaken over time. But if possible, would likely cost millions of US lives.

[BlerkOne]

Even Fox is reporting Covid deaths are rising again.

[sfaaa]

Seems like a normal trend. COVID is rising all over the world. 

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, quattrohead said:

I am 100% sure that air travel contributed to the spread more than ships, starting at the tail end of 2019.

 

Airtravel is what spread it, contrary to most people the outrbreaks on the East Coast of US came from Europe.

 

But now that it is everywhere the only way to suppress it is like a spreading fire that is already everywhere, suffocate it by removing the ability to spread locally!     That means all the necessary mitigation people seem to be against.   Stopping international travel, pointing fingers at China, Europe, WHO etc. etc. doesn't stop the crazy increase all across the US or the deaths that are coming this weekend.  There is always hope, but we as a country need to unify and start TODAY to put mitigation in place, it ain't going to be mitigated by WARP speed vaccination, it will be suffocated by unification of purpose of the people.

 

Things like large gatherings and cruise ships aren't going to help mitigation, nor people fighting mask rules on airplanes.

[jimbo5544]

The cdc slow to act waiting game continues.....

 

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/ship-operations/us-based-cruise-industry-waiting-game

[Despegue]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:17 PM, Cruising_Addict said:

Because someone is more likely to catch the virus on a cruise ship, where they can socially distance from other people, than on a plane where they can’t?  Riiiiiiight. 

With all respect,

 

it is nearly impossible to catch Covid19 onboard an aircraft if you follow mask wearing rules and disinfect your hands.

there have ONLY BEEN 4  reported CASES Worldwide of infection onboard an aircraft. 

 

[Despegue]

23 hours ago, Cruising_Addict said:

Um, it’s not true. You can’t stay 6 feet away from other people on a plane. And airlines are not testing everyone immediately before boarding. If you are not hearing about outbreaks on planes it’s only because by the time people get diagnosed, they have been in public in so many places that it’s impossible to ascertain exactly when or where they got infected. But I guarantee it is definitely happening. If cruise ships can’t sail than all planes should have been grounded for this whole time as well.

Get your bloody facts right please.

Air Travel, does NOT pose a risk of contracting Covid19 if all required mitigation procedures onboard are followed. FACT.

HEPA filters combined with the specific ventilation and mask wearing make contamination nearly impossible, asmproved by many demonstrations over the last months. Those “simulations “ on where you see a mass spread when coughing are completely ignoring the ventilation systems and mask wearing.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

Seems like a normal trend. COVID is rising all over the world. 

Yes, but nothing like it is in the US. Still Number 1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Host Carolyn]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I understand your point about no politics, even though it is easy to go there which many people have done, including me. But I find it ironic that on a site dedicated to cruising,  we can’t talk about the ONE thing that is likely to determine if there is going to be a cruise industry in the future in the US. Unfortunately science is not going to determine if/when cruising resumes from US ports. 

 

I'm trying to give you guys some leeway here but I can close or mangle this thread with deletions if you prefer???...there are literally hundreds of sites and Facebook groups where you can discuss politics...this is not one of them. 

 

Again, your choice.....

Edited October 27, 2020 by Host Carolyn

[BlerkOne]

4 hours ago, quattrohead said:

I am 100% sure that air travel contributed to the spread more than ships, starting at the tail end of 2019.

Likely, however, I think likely the people were already infected when they boarded the plane, not after.

[pe4all]

5 hours ago, quattrohead said:

I am 100% sure that air travel contributed to the spread more than ships, starting at the tail end of 2019.

 

57 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Likely, however, I think likely the people were already infected when they boarded the plane, not after.

I think both statements are correct.  JFK had over 34,000 flights in January, from over 74 countries, with 23 direct from Wuhan.   The spread of covid in NY was fast and furious.  This is a pretty good article:  https://abcnews.go.com/Health/disaster-motion-flights-coronavirus-ravaged-countries-landed-us/story?id=70025470.  While I think air flights are pretty safe (as long as people follow masks/hand sanitizing) I am more leary of airports and hotels - and cruise ships.  One person coughing with mask off, sneezing into a hand and then touching something, or not cleansing hands correctly (how many people do I still see not washing hands when coming out of restrooms?  Too many) can spread all different kinds of viruses, as we all know.  As much cleaning sanitizing as a cruise ship crew can do may not be enough.  Just look at the flu or gasto outbreaks that happen on ships.

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, quattrohead said:

I am 100% sure that air travel contributed to the spread more than ships, starting at the tail end of 2019.

This has to be true. Even if you are unlikely to catch it on the flight, it was brought to this country by people who already had it coming to the East Coast from Europe and the West Coast from China.

 

Also there was a lot more passengers on flights than on cruise ships.

[Arizona Wildcat]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Yes, but nothing like it is in the US. Still Number 1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The number of cases is directly correlated with testing.  Local university brought some students to campus.  Has run 68000 tests and voila . . . about 3500 new cases.

Our state went from 2/3 of cases from 60+ adults to total being 75% of new cases from those under 30.  Should focus on those that are vulnerable and protest them.  Hard to protect a 25 year old who cares little about others.

Agree the election will determine if real cruising (many ships) resumes in January or late spring after vaccine readily available.

[skridge]

6 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Good pts. Also the education of our kids. They gave a estimate of lost earning power our kids have due to us shutting them down. 1500 scientists or doctors have now banned together saying economic shutdown hurts worse than the virus.

It is amazing to me the selective listening some will do to scientist and doctors.  There are a lot of scientist and doctors out there that have been saying wearing masks and social distancing is a good thing and many think that tramples on their freedom.

[sfaaa]

1 hour ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

The number of cases is directly correlated with testing.  Local university brought some students to campus.  Has run 68000 tests and voila . . . about 3500 new cases.

Our state went from 2/3 of cases from 60+ adults to total being 75% of new cases from those under 30.  Should focus on those that are vulnerable and protest them.  Hard to protect a 25 year old who cares little about others.

 

Also relating to the size of population and control of press reporting in a given country. The bigger the population where news reporting is not routinely censored by an authoritarian/communist regime , the more likelihood to get a higher reported case count.

[ray98]

12 hours ago, skridge said:

It is amazing how the narrative continues to change with some people , but never do they blame the maskless freedom warriors.  You all are now blaming the people who have worn masks the entire time and done things that if everyone in this country would have done back in March we would be in a lot better shape right now.  That is a very delusional way of looking at things.

 

Blaming?  LOL....no....I am pointing out nothing happens in a vacuum.  For every person who wants to disconnect from society takes another person to make that possible.  The world didn't shut down, 'essential' workers just made it possible and they usually had no choice in the matter.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

The number of cases is directly correlated with testing.  Local university brought some students to campus.  Has run 68000 tests and voila . . . about 3500 new cases.

 

Surely you are not suggesting that 0 tests means no Covid.

 

There is not exactly a direct correlation between testing and cases. You need to factor in positivity rate which currently is increasing faster than the number of tests (Again).