Passengers who have used Mixed Vaccination Protocols will not be considered to be Fully Vaccinated per RCI FAQs

[not-enough-cruising]

15 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

Of course. I mean, there is no possible way it could be because of the private sectors inability to meet the demand...despite all the government funding.....

 

Do I need the sarcasm flag?

Sarcasm flag? No 

Maybe a clueless or uninformed flag. 
The private sector response to the vaccination program was pretty incredible. In less than 6 months from receiving the green light to manufacture and distribute, there are more vaccine doses on the street than people

wanting them, that’s pretty impressive, given what it takes to manufacture these mRNA vaccines. 

[karebare22]

6 hours ago, sgmn said:

Crazy when a lot of scientists say you get as good or better efficacy with mixed vaccines and Angela Merkel,  the German chancellor had mixed vaccines, so its good enough for the leader of a major western country ....

 

Agreed. The Canadian Prime minister, Justin Trudeau, has also received mixed vaccines (AZ then Moderna). I anticipate it won’t be long before some of these accepted vaccination guidelines change. I did end up getting both vaccines the same, but had no hesitation to get a different vaccine if that was the only one available at the time. 

[mabt]

6 minutes ago, topnole said:

Fact?   There are few facts in science.  The knowledge on this is evolving and if you think the scientists “know” things with 100% certainty you are giving them far too much credit.  The expectations of doctors that mixing doses is probably ok doesn’t make it so and I doubt any scientists recommended mixes doses as a way to improve immunity.  It was a political/regulation/supply/logistics issue that created different vax types for some people.  It was not because science thought it was better for you.  
 

Also, while future research results might suggest mixing vax shots is an appropriate method, it would be inappropriate to just assume a vaccine approach that goes against the approved recommendation has the same efficacy.  I would guess it will too, but what science believes to be the case often isn’t.  That is why valid research results are needed.  And not just one or two studies.  Research needs to replicated  and the methods need to be highly scrutinized for any credence to be given.
 

The said part of this pandemic is the misunderstanding of science by the general public.   

 

Actually in the case of AZ, the recommendation to mix vaccines was almost entirely because the science board thought it was "better for you".  Both because studies were suggesting improved immune response, and because of the clotting concerns that arose or at least were evolving at the time that people were getting their first AZ doses.

 

Mixing mRNA vaccines, on the other hand, is entirely political, due to logistics and based in decades of immunization science that *might* not apply to the COVID vaccines, but is very, very likely to.  Also supported by ALL of the real-world evidence we do have at this point, however limited.

[topnole]

17 minutes ago, Saab4444 said:

There have been official studies in Europe proofing that mixing AstraZeneca (first shot) and Moderna or Pfizer (second shot) provides the highest percentage of immunization. In any case much higher than two times AstrZeneca. This is why countries like Germany now do this mix on purpose. Everyone with first shot AstraZeneca will get second one with Moderna/Pfizer.

Are you sure they are doing this based on efficacy of combining vaxes in general?  Or perhaps because Astra had serious problems with public perception due to clotting issue, a much lower efficacy, so people are afraid of it/want something better, and was temporarily paused by the EMA.  Of course efficacy will go up if you the first dose you get is a lower efficacy vax and the second is a 95% efficacy vax.  Of course you will get a different second shot if the first vax is temporarily halted Due to safety issue.  

[Saab4444]

14 minutes ago, topnole said:

Fact?   There are few facts in science.  The knowledge on this is evolving and if you think the scientists “know” things with 100% certainty you are giving them far too much credit.  The expectations of doctors that mixing doses is probably ok doesn’t make it so and I doubt any scientists recommended mixes doses as a way to improve immunity.  It was a political/regulation/supply/logistics issue that created different vax types for some people.  It was not because science thought it was better for you.  
 

Also, while future research results might suggest mixing vax shots is an appropriate method, it would be inappropriate to just assume a vaccine approach that goes against the approved recommendation has the same efficacy.  I would guess it will too, but what science believes to be the case often isn’t.  That is why valid research results are needed.  And not just one or two studies.  Research needs to replicated  and the methods need to be highly scrutinized for any credence to be given.
 

The said part of this pandemic is the misunderstanding of science by the general public.   

That is incorrect. In Germany they decided for the mix just because of scientific studies. This was not done because of limited supply from certain providers or other political or economic reasons. In fact the opposite is true. Just because of this decision many supplied dosis could not be used anymore any many apointments for vaxination had to be postponed.

[latebuyer]

When i phoned they refused to give me a refund for a deposit (the cruise isn’t until april). They said policies change and this policy was only in place until november when it would be reevaluated. My concern is their policies aren’t stable. Maybe i’ll try again to get a refund. Its only refundable deposits for me going forward or i’ll book at last minute if this ever resolves itself. 

[molsonschooner]

15 hours ago, BecciBoo said:

Who the heck would do that??????

People from other countries do. We live in Canada. Mixing Phizer and Moderna is routine and some so called experts saying mixing has some advantages 

[topnole]

23 minutes ago, Saab4444 said:

That is incorrect. In Germany they decided for the mix just because of scientific studies. This was not done because of limited supply from certain providers or other political or economic reasons. In fact the opposite is true. Just because of this decision many supplied dosis could not be used anymore any many apointments for vaxination had to be postponed.

So it wasn’t  political?   Are you kidding me?   Astra had lower efficacy than the Mrna vax and fear was developing around astra due to clotting issues.  Same happened in the US with JJ shot and the numbers of JJ shots fell off a cliff overnight.  If they didn’t switch people wouldn’t have finished their second shot.  
 

Of course the use of Mrna vax for the second shot increased efficacy.  It is a higher efficacy vax.  The science board didn’t say mixing is better in general.  What they said was that using an approved Mrna as the second shot after an Astra dose was superior to two shots of Astra.  Not superior to two doses of Pfizer.  Just superior to two doses of Astra.  This wasn’t a general finding on mixing vax types.  It was specific to Astra and (moderno and Pfizer).  And it was specific to Four weeks after.  Not if you waited the 8-12 Weeks that was common between Astra doses.   So any generalization that mixing doses in general is superior to other vax methods is a complete misrepresentation of the research.  
 

Science is very nuanced and like this situation is often over generalized.  On this board there are many asserting mixing is better in general.  Perhaps it is, but we have no idea at this point.  

[latebuyer]

I’m mad at the canadian government for putting us in this situation. If we couldn’t travel internationally it shouldn’t have been approved. Next we won’t be able to go across the border.

[Joebucks]

What a complete mess. There are many people still waiting for thorough studies before they take a single vaccine. Here we have people jumping into mixing vaccines because they heard an opinion. Besides the unknown health effects, they will not meet some vaccination standards.

 

Then comes the booster shots as variants are already peeking their heads through vaccinations. Are people going to mix a 3rd jab? What special combinations won't meet standards soon enough?

[DirtyDawg]

The title of this thread should have been:

 

For now, Passengers who have used Mixed Vaccination Protocols will not be considered to be Fully Vaccinated per RCI FAQs 

 

This is an issue for people who plan to cruise in the short term. It will get sorted out as more studies are done and negotiations about opening up international travel unfold. I feel bad for those people affected by this but this reopening of international travel, including cruising, was never going to be a smooth one following the unprecedented disruptions we have experience over the past 16 months. 

 

 

[NateUpNorth]

@Ourusualbeach I realize things move and change frequently and quickly on this sort of thing, but will you be reaching out to any of your contacts to ask if this means there will be an updated refund policy to capture this? As it stands a great many people will be in a category where a FCC is useless due to mixed vaxx situations.

Apologies, looks like you commented on page 3. 
Are the refunds coming just off a phone call to a rep, or is escalation needed?

Edited July 17, 2021 by NateUpNorth

[Ourusualbeach]

2 minutes ago, NateUpNorth said:

@Ourusualbeach I realize things move and change frequently and quickly on this sort of thing, but will you be reaching out to any of your contacts to ask if this means there will be an updated refund policy to capture this? As it stands a great many people will be in a category where a FCC is useless due to mixed vaxx situations.

They have updated their refund policies, even if they are not officially posted.  At the current time they only apply to July and August (possibly September) sailings as that is all that they have released final protocols for.  As mentioned, things change so they are not about to start refunding people for October cruises when protocols could change.  I know that they will also refund and FCC's that have been applied to reservations that qualify fir a refund as oppoed to having the FCC reissued

[ladysail2]

For a bit of good news….Barbados has reversed its decision on the mixing of vaccines. As of yesterday,  one is considered vaccinated if one received two vaccines, regardless of which ones.  

 

Was this decision for the cruiselines from the CDC, or from the cruiselines themselves?   Thanks!

[NateUpNorth]

18 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

They have updated their refund policies, even if they are not officially posted.  At the current time they only apply to July and August (possibly September) sailings as that is all that they have released final protocols for.  As mentioned, things change so they are not about to start refunding people for October cruises when protocols could change.  I know that they will also refund and FCC's that have been applied to reservations that qualify fir a refund as oppoed to having the FCC reissued

Thank you. I (and I'm sure other Ontarians in a mix vaxx situation) appreciate your full explanation as always.
I guess we'll fall under "further updates as available" for our November booking.
Thank you again!

It would be nice if they made decisions before final payments but I won't hold my breath.....

Edited July 17, 2021 by NateUpNorth

[steamboats]

2 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

Everyone with first shot AstraZeneca will get second one with Moderna/Pfizer.

 

Not anymore for a while now... Especially when you got vaccinated at your family doctor you can chose to have a second dose of AZ. We had special vaccine actions in Munich for 60+ who all got two doses of AZ from the official vaccination center. Only the younger ones still get the mix. But here you can now opt and chose freely which vaccine you want to have (also for the second dose). Currently you don´t even need an appointment. You only have to have signed up at the state wide website we have here in Bavaria.

 

steamboats

[topnole]

59 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

The title of this thread should have been:

 

For now, Passengers who have used Mixed Vaccination Protocols will not be considered to be Fully Vaccinated per RCI FAQs 

 

This is an issue for people who plan to cruise in the short term. It will get sorted out as more studies are done and negotiations about opening up international travel unfold. I feel bad for those people affected by this but this reopening of international travel, including cruising, was never going to be a smooth one following the unprecedented disruptions we have experience over the past 16 months. 

 

 

This is a spot on comment.  And of course they have to worry about when they will get sued for whatever reason associated with Covid.  They are in a nearly impossible position no matter what they do.  
 

Given the most recent publicly known law suit, I can certainly imagine a scenario where someone falsifies a vax card, gets Covid, and then sues Royal for it claiming they got it on the cruise and Royal protocol was insufficient.  
 

 

[mabt]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

Here we have people jumping into mixing vaccines because they heard an opinion. 

 

🤣 I mean, it wasn't Tom from next door.  It was our national immunization advisory committee, made up of twelve top experts in the fields of immunology, infectious disease, public health, and other related disciplines.  Based on some pretty solid scientific reasoning, taking into account the practicalities of the situation at the time.

 

Was it ideal?  No.  Would I have preferred to get two doses of the same vaccine in a timely manner?  Of course.  But suggesting that people getting vaccinated in accordance with expert public health advice was somehow irresponsible is pretty absurd.

 

ETA: we can agree that the whole situation is a mess, though.

Edited July 17, 2021 by mabt

[latebuyer]

I think I learned to be less trustful of the government. It never should have been recommended if it wasn't internationally accepted.

[Mapleleafforever]

Calm down everyone, this policy will change. 

[Ourusualbeach]

49 minutes ago, NateUpNorth said:

It would be nice if they made decisions before final payments but I won't hold my breath.....

I doubt it.  protocols aren't released that early.

[mabt]

14 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Calm down everyone, this policy will change. 

 

Agreed.  The problem is that we don't know when.

 

At the moment, all I have at stake is a refundable cruise.  But at some point very soon, I will have to book flights.  We are six weeks out, and options for Eastern Canada are both very limited and fairly expensive.  If I wait a couple of weeks, I run the risk of having even fewer and/or more expensive options.  Fully refundable fares from Canada cost (way) more than the cruise.  If I book a non-refundable fare, and have to cancel, I risk losing thousands.  My best option, both in price and flexibility, is to drive to New York and fly direct from there, but we don't even know for sure that we'll be allowed to drive across the border by late August.  That's looking positive, but by no means certain.

 

So, speaking only for myself, I'm perfectly calm.  But still calmly evaluating my options.  😉

[Sunshine3601]

17 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

Canada has been doing this a lot.

Getting 3 doses Is being done a lot?   I would be nervous about getting 3.

[A&L_Ont]

1 minute ago, Sunshine3601 said:

Getting 3 doses Is being done a lot?   I would be nervous about getting 3.

Not three doses. Two, but it is a lot of mixed doses.  

[Sunshine3601]

13 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

Not three doses. Two, but it is a lot of mixed doses.  

Yes I understand that is 2 mixed doses is common in Canada, UK and other countries.

I was replying to her post as the post she responded to was saying people that had 1 pfizer then 1 moderna then get another pfizer.  I dont think that I would want to do that at this stage.

Edit... @ReneeFLL  think I missed read.   Sorry Easily confused

Edited July 17, 2021 by Sunshine3601