Why the Joy failed in China

[fstuff1]

Article that came out a few days ago:

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1140989.shtml

 

1) 2018 witnessed the first time in 13 years that both the numbers of cruises and inbound and outbound cruise passengers in China have seen a decline.

 

2) travel agencies often sell cruise tickets at a relatively low price to Chinese customers, who should not be cruise ships' target customers at all. These customers are unwilling to spend anything extra.

Industry analyst Yan Chunfeng told Chinese media Jiemian that on the cruise-selling platforms, the profit per person for a Chinese cruise route is 300 yuan ($44.78) while for the Alaska cruise route, the profit per person would be 1,500 yuan. 

 

a 5 day china cruise on the Joy costs only $360US. :o

$72/day... not much profit, especially for a brand new ship with a $1B price tag

 

[shof515]

I think it is because NCL double down in this market by putting a brand new mega ship in an unreliable market.  They should of first started with a smaller mid size ship then work they way up to the bigger mega ships like the Joy

[rochelle_s]

Thanks for sharing the article. It was an interesting read.

 

Rochelle

[fstuff1]

3 hours ago, shof515 said:

I think it is because NCL double down in this market by putting a brand new mega ship in an unreliable market.  They should of first started with a smaller mid size ship then work they way up to the bigger mega ships like the Joy

 

yup, i agree.

 

i see them making the same mistake for alaska.

2 mega ships and a small ship for this year's alaska season?

from what i've read, they werent close to sold out with 2 small ships and the Bliss last year.

 

maybe they're gambling that people really want to sail the Joy because it's new?

hm.. Joy also has lots of non-Haven double bedroom cabins, which would look attractive for families with kids especially during summer when school's out.

and you keep the Jewel in Alaska because some places the larger cruise ship cant get to.

And the Bliss was built specifically for Alaska...

 

[tomservo]

I can’t tell if they pulled the Joy out of China because it didn’t succeed there, or if it’s a bet on the Alaska market. Maybe a little of both. 

[ceilidh1]

1 hour ago, fstuff1 said:

 

 

And the Bliss was built specifically for Alaska...

 

Slightly off topic, but I keep reading about how the Bliss was built for Alaska. Aside from the observation deck (which is, indeed, amazing) what feature make Bliss perfect for Alaska? I sailed her on a coastal last year and will go again this year but I'm not sure I would want to do Alaska on Bliss.

 

Bliss is a beautiful ship but, what made her more special, were the many outside features - the slides, the go karts, the waterfront, the lazer tag. Do these really get much use in Alaska? I have been to Alaska more times than I care to count and, honestly, Alaska is more about itinerary and scenery than ship. Our best cruise there was a on a small ship (Tahitian Princess) that was able to get to many ports that big ships can't get to and was able to get up close and personal for glacier viewing.

 

Again, sorry it's off topic, but just curious what others think about the "Alaska" marketing as Joy is a sister ship and will have many of the same features I assume?

[fstuff1]

27 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

Slightly off topic, but I keep reading about how the Bliss was built for Alaska. Aside from the observation deck (which is, indeed, amazing) what feature make Bliss perfect for Alaska? I sailed her on a coastal last year and will go again this year but I'm not sure I would want to do Alaska on Bliss.

 

Bliss is a beautiful ship but, what made her more special, were the many outside features - the slides, the go karts, the waterfront, the lazer tag. Do these really get much use in Alaska? I have been to Alaska more times than I care to count and, honestly, Alaska is more about itinerary and scenery than ship. Our best cruise there was a on a small ship (Tahitian Princess) that was able to get to many ports that big ships can't get to and was able to get up close and personal for glacier viewing.

 

Again, sorry it's off topic, but just curious what others think about the "Alaska" marketing as Joy is a sister ship and will have many of the same features I assume?

 

Bliss's hull art 

 

Joy is only considered a sistership in name because it's lumped into the 'Breakaway Plus' class. not much similarities beyond that.

Joy was built for the China market. during drydock, they are going to Americanize her to make her more similar to the Bliss.

they're going to put in an Observation Lounge similar to the Bliss. they're also going to remove the upper floor casino, which none of the other NCL ships have.

dont know what else tho to Americanize her.

 

Instead of solo studios, Joy has non-Haven double bedroom cabins. She will keep this during the drydock, making the Joy the only Breakaway/Breakaway Plus ship without studio cabins. (unless they are adding solo studios + studio lounge somewhere else on the ship during drydock?)

 

the Joy can be considered her own class of ship.

heck, the Escape can also be her own class of ship. Unlike the other Breakaway Plus ships, she's too wide to fit thru the new panama canal locks because her lifeboats hang over the edge. she's in the 5% of ships in the world that cant fit thru the new locks.

bliss/joy/encore have the lifeboats tucked into the ship and thus can go thru the new panama locks.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by fstuff1

[SeaShark]

2 hours ago, fstuff1 said:

 

the Joy can be considered her own class of ship.

heck, the Escape can also be her own class of ship. Unlike the other Breakaway Plus ships, she's too wide to fit thru the new panama canal locks because her lifeboats hang over the edge. she's in the 5% of ships in the world that cant fit thru the new locks.

bliss/joy/encore have the lifeboats tucked into the ship and thus can go thru the new panama locks.

 

 

 

Wow...that is an interesting tidbit.

 

Do you think NCL should be told about this? I mean, they have about eight Panama Canal cruises already on the schedule for the Joy. They might want to know that the ship won't fit. This could be embarrassing.

 

[Alegeeter]

12 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

Wow...that is an interesting tidbit.

 

Do you think NCL should be told about this? I mean, they have about eight Panama Canal cruises already on the schedule for the Joy. They might want to know that the ship won't fit. This could be embarrassing.

 

I think you misread. fstuff was saying that the Escape can't fit through the canal. 

Joy can.

[shof515]

2 hours ago, ceilidh1 said:

Slightly off topic, but I keep reading about how the Bliss was built for Alaska. Aside from the observation deck (which is, indeed, amazing) what feature make Bliss perfect for Alaska? I sailed her on a coastal last year and will go again this year but I'm not sure I would want to do Alaska on Bliss.

 

 

not specifically for Alaska, but her lifeboats is inwards toward the ship unlike her other sister ships like the Escape, Breakaway and Getaway where the lifeboats hang off of to the ships. 

 

The inward lifeboats give the ship more flexible with docking in certain ports and is able to fit in the panama canal.

Edited March 8, 2019 by shof515

[Gershep]

Interesting

[Peachypooh]

Doing business internationally can sometimes be a

little tricky. You need to be aware of all the cultural norms plus know how

to get the information you need to make an informed decision. Sometimes

you even need to hire an intermediary to explain the nuances of what you are

about to do. Sometimes in an effort  to put forth their country in a good

light you just don't get the straight story.  Source? A friend who does

lots of business overseas.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Peachypooh

[sfaaa]

Not surprised. Chinese economy is cooling off big time. Plus anti corruption drive is putting a damper on the once free wheeling consumer spending and available cash flow. All is not well in Chairman's people republic.

[thetaro]

The itinerary is boring. Most are going to a secondary city in Japan for a couple days.

Nagasaki, Kumamoto or Fukuoka from Shanghai.

 

There are plenty of options for Chinese tourists to visit Japan and they would rather go to Osaka, Kyoto or Tokyo.

 

[Teacherloves2Cruise]

Very interesting thread. I am excited to be on the US Inaugural sailing of Joy on April 26th. 

[ClarkBHM]

15 hours ago, fstuff1 said:

Instead of solo studios, Joy has non-Haven double bedroom cabins. She will keep this during the drydock, making the Joy the only Breakaway/Breakaway Plus ship without studio cabins. (unless they are adding solo studios + studio lounge somewhere else on the ship during drydock?)

 

Interesting. I've been lamenting the lack of non-Haven suites in the newer ships as it's gotten so expensive to be in the Haven. I see that these are basically interior suites with a virtual balcony, which would be significantly cheaper. I'll have to check it out.

[Casino Comp Chick]

I heard horror stories about the Joy when it was in China, I am not surprised they are moving the ship. 

[Captain-John]

3 hours ago, Casino Comp Chick said:

I heard horror stories about the Joy when it was in China, I am not surprised they are moving the ship. 

 

Horror stories as in bad reviews, or involving the passengers or what?

[Peachypooh]

I am not the person you are quoting so I will let them answer what they meant but I heard

horror stories too. Mostly passenger behavior.

[Captain-John]

I figured as much, but haven't read anything myself (although out of morbid curiosity would quite like to!)

[Laszlo]

10 minutes ago, Peachypooh said:

I am not the person you are quoting so I will let them answer what they meant but I heard

horror stories too. Mostly passenger behavior.

 

10 minutes ago, Peachypooh said:

I am not the person you are quoting so I will let them answer what they meant but I heard

horror stories too. Mostly passenger behavior.

 

 

My wife and I sailed to Alaska out of Seattle in September 2016. On the sailing was a group of 200 from Germany, a group of 200 from England and a group of 300 from China. The Brits and the Germans were a blast. The group of Chinese were rude, nasty and downright dirty. I get different cultures do different things, but constantly spitting on the floor is not something any culture should be doing. I felt bad for crew, they were just plain nasty to them, and thats some of the details I remember.

[Casino Comp Chick]

55 minutes ago, Peachypooh said:

I am not the person you are quoting so I will let them answer what they meant but I heard

horror stories too. Mostly passenger behavior.

This....

[jingle5616]

On 3/8/2019 at 12:27 PM, SeaShark said:

 

Wow...that is an interesting tidbit.

 

Do you think NCL should be told about this? I mean, they have about eight Panama Canal cruises already on the schedule for the Joy. They might want to know that the ship won't fit. This could be embarrassing.

 

Well bless your NCL little heart!

[luv2kroooz]

On 3/8/2019 at 10:33 AM, tomservo said:

I can’t tell if they pulled the Joy out of China because it didn’t succeed there, or if it’s a bet on the Alaska market. Maybe a little of both. 

I think they pulled it because it didn't succeed there. The ship was purpose-built for the market, with signage in Mandarin etc. This was a pretty big failure for NCL as they had made significant investment in the market. I forget what the cost is for NCL as they are now refitting Joy for Alaska. 

[luv2kroooz]

9 hours ago, Peachypooh said:

I am not the person you are quoting so I will let them answer what they meant but I heard

horror stories too. Mostly passenger behavior.

I heard this too on a recent behind the scenes tour. I have no first hand knowledge, but I interpreted it as the clientele was defacing the ship. Maybe defacing is too strong of a word, but it sounded like after a year or two more, the ship was going to require major maintenance.