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90% effective vaccine EVEN without booster shot...


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1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

You raise some very valid points.  The fair and ethical distribution of the vaccine will be a tall order, however, I have faith it will be able to be conducted equitably.  

 

Since there are several vaccines coming down the pike and not everyone wants to be vaccinated, shortages might not be as big a problem as some foresee. 

Yup, I think the anti vaxxers will actually make it easier to get a vaccine for those who are ready.

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2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I'm sure I could come up with a underlying condition or two, but havent seen a doctor in a couple of years.

 

But the way I read what you wrote, so I'd need to go see a doctor and what get a note saying I have this or that and then going to wherever they have the vaccine to have my note checked?

 

The vaccine isnt going to be just distributed everywhere like the flu shot if it's got to be stored at sub zero conditions.

 

And my parents are not at a nursing home. They live alone but just getting them to a doctor to get a note? My 102 year old dad has a pace maker. My 94 year old mom has copd. 

 

I see issues with the roll out. Everyone wants to make light of it, but doesnt sound easy or fast to me. It also sounded like my parents would be behind those in nursing homes, though they are stuck sheltering in place. Someone said one doctor on Biden's new task force published a paper in his past about why people shouldn't live past age 75, and that as you say front line, which will take a long time, then nursing homes before those like me or my parents. ... 

 

And we havent even gotten to what the federal govt considers front line workers. Here front line workers include gun sellers and liquor distributors.. another state might not. My cousins kid works for chewy and I'm tired of hearing how important she is as a front line worker. ... I see some issues who is a front line worker.

 

Easy to just say what you said, but i want to see it in writing, not just what you heard which is vague to me., every state is different who is front line. I'd like to see my parents .... and me before some kids tbh who might qualify as front line. 

 

 

I work for a chain drug store that has been open the entire time but I don't consider myself a front line worker. People who are sick with who knows what come in but I still don't think I would be top of the list. Every time someone buys cold and flu remedies I get suspicious. Knock wood I haven't even had seasonal allergies this year. I think the mask cut down on the pollen intake. To be perfectly honest I don't think I would rush out to get a vaccine and I don't think my elderly parents should either. I'll wait to see what our Doctors recommend.  

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1 hour ago, molly361 said:

When these do become available I guess you don't get to pick the manufacturer of your choice (the 90% vs the 70%) you just get whichever vaccine and brand your provider has available.  

Well it also depends on what the insurance company will pay. For example I got a flu shot at CVS. The insurance covered it 100%  My son went a few months later to the same CVS and they were going to charge him $70 with the same insurance. We found out that they were out of the vaccine that I was injected with and the one they had from another pharmacy company cost $70 out of pocket. Needless to say we called around to find the vaccine that I received.  I don't know if covid will be a government expense or a personal out of pocket for the individual.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

Well it also depends on what the insurance company will pay. For example I got a flu shot at CVS. The insurance covered it 100%  My son went a few months later to the same CVS and they were going to charge him $70 with the same insurance. We found out that they were out of the vaccine that I was injected with and the one they had from another pharmacy company cost $70 out of pocket. Needless to say we called around to find the vaccine that I received.  I don't know if covid will be a government expense or a personal out of pocket for the individual.

 

 

Interesting.  I have never heard of that.  My husband gets a flu shot every year and I am sure he doesn't have a clue (or care) who the manufacturer is.  I thought a flue shot was a flu shot

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41 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

 

We always get some.

We got ours at Harris Teeter and they always give documentation with what to watch for and the lot# and other identifying info on the vaccine received.

 

Also, neither my DH or I have ever paid for a flu shot (nor have our grown sons).  I was a US Fed employee and DH was Navy and then a Fed contractor as are both our sons.  Shots were given out at work.  This year they didn't offer them at either of my son's companies or my DH's.  But, that's due to the pandemic.  We all just went to a pharmacy and got them, at no cost.

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Just now, molly361 said:

Interesting.  I have never heard of that.  My husband gets a flu shot every year and I am sure he doesn't have a clue (or care) who the manufacturer is.  I thought a flue shot was a flu shot

They are all the same but I guess our insurance only covered a certain brand.  It must be like how they cover certain band named drugs vs generic. My wife has the top plan from NYU and they usually pay out well. This was just strange to us too. The chain drug stores always advertise free flu shots but it boils down to your insurance coverage.

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2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I'm sure I could come up with a underlying condition or two, but havent seen a doctor in a couple of years.

 

But the way I read what you wrote, so I'd need to go see a doctor and what get a note saying I have this or that and then going to wherever they have the vaccine to have my note checked?

 

The vaccine isnt going to be just distributed everywhere like the flu shot if it's got to be stored at sub zero conditions.

 

And my parents are not at a nursing home. They live alone but just getting them to a doctor to get a note? My 102 year old dad has a pace maker. My 94 year old mom has copd. 

 

I see issues with the roll out. Everyone wants to make light of it, but doesnt sound easy or fast to me. It also sounded like my parents would be behind those in nursing homes, though they are stuck sheltering in place. Someone said one doctor on Biden's new task force published a paper in his past about why people shouldn't live past age 75, and that as you say front line, which will take a long time, then nursing homes before those like me or my parents. ... 

 

And we havent even gotten to what the federal govt considers front line workers. Here front line workers include gun sellers and liquor distributors.. another state might not. My cousins kid works for chewy and I'm tired of hearing how important she is as a front line worker. ... I see some issues who is a front line worker.

 

Easy to just say what you said, but i want to see it in writing, not just what you heard which is vague to me., every state is different who is front line. I'd like to see my parents .... and me before some kids tbh who might qualify as front line. 

 

 

IDK what the status is in all 50 states, but in Florida, the distribution plan and process has already been laid out by the Governor. I believe each governor was given the charge by the Feds to develop and present their distribution plans and strategies to the CDC/NIH/USPHS for review and approval. I presume that process is taking place.

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3 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Correct, front line health care workers and essential workers get top priority.  Next are people with underlying conditions, many who are in nursing homes and assisted living facilities and then people 65 and older. The rest of the population could be looking at mid 2021 on average.  

 

The good news is that there are three other US companies (besides all the worldwide companies) that are in phase 3 development of vaccines. Moderna, Johnson & Johnson and Novamax are poised to announce promising news soon.  

Great news for me as an essential worker.  Even better news about the other companies.

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28 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

Well it also depends on what the insurance company will pay. For example I got a flu shot at CVS. The insurance covered it 100%  My son went a few months later to the same CVS and they were going to charge him $70 with the same insurance. We found out that they were out of the vaccine that I was injected with and the one they had from another pharmacy company cost $70 out of pocket. Needless to say we called around to find the vaccine that I received.  I don't know if covid will be a government expense or a personal out of pocket for the individual.

 

 

Interesting. We always get ours at the local Publix, and not only is the shot free (to us) but Publix gives each of us a $10 gift card for getting our shots from them.

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19 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

They are all the same but I guess our insurance only covered a certain brand.  It must be like how they cover certain band named drugs vs generic. My wife has the top plan from NYU and they usually pay out well. This was just strange to us too. The chain drug stores always advertise free flu shots but it boils down to your insurance coverage.

Depending on your age and type of coverage, some insurance companies will only cover your flu shot if you receive the quad (high) dose vaccine.

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32 minutes ago, orville99 said:

IDK what the status is in all 50 states, but in Florida, the distribution plan and process has already been laid out by the Governor. I believe each governor was given the charge by the Feds to develop and present their distribution plans and strategies to the CDC/NIH/USPHS for review and approval. I presume that process is taking place.

The deadline for states to submit their plans to the CDC was a couple of weeks ago.

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49 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

They are all the same but I guess our insurance only covered a certain brand.  It must be like how they cover certain band named drugs vs generic. My wife has the top plan from NYU and they usually pay out well. This was just strange to us too. The chain drug stores always advertise free flu shots but it boils down to your insurance coverage.

What it probably means is your insurance co had an agreement with certain manufacturers.  

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We're in So Cal and have a Medicate Advantage HMO. We get the flu shot through our medical provider. No paperwork give and this year you made an appt and got the shot at a drive-thru clinic. Flu shots were available for a fee. or with other insurance coverage, at the drug store but our health plan was one that didn't cover you for a shot there. 

 

Below is the preliminary California Covid-19 Vaccination Plan 

COVID-19-Vaccination-Plan-California-Interim-Draft_V1.0.pdf

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1 hour ago, bigrednole said:

But only the first ones out in the US will be protected by the PREP Act. The FDA and government do not have to extend the protections to whoever comes out second. Assuming Pfizer gets the FDA EUA agreement, then it may be the only Pharma in the US protected by the PREP Act. If that is the case, it means all others will be open to lawsuits on any adverse affects. That plays a tremendous factor in it from a US perspective. 

 

It would be political suicide to only allow one pharma company to get an FDA EUA agreement if that company cannot meet demand, there's another viable vaccine from a different company, and people continue to get sick/die.

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3 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Bottom line on flu shots...

 

Free or not - Get your shot!

 

Is $70 worth your health?  We spend thousands on a cruise.  A few bucks on our well being is not excessive.

 

I think the comments about flu shots and cost were informational comparison. Where did you see someone say they wouldn't get the flu shot or even the vaccine if they had to pay something?

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18 minutes ago, bobmacliberty said:

 

It would be political suicide to only allow one pharma company to get an FDA EUA agreement if that company cannot meet demand, there's another viable vaccine from a different company, and people continue to get sick/die.

If there is a vaccine that is already out and assume the number is right at 90%, the FDA is not going to give EUA rights to another Pharma that is not as effective. It would be unethical to even release it knowing that you could not take another's vaccine. So yes, if Pfizer is accurate with 90% effective rate and say Moderna comes out 5 months later at 50%, the FDA is not going to give them EUA approval. Pfizer and the government will ramp up manufacturers to meet the demand. Moderna would have to launch without protections from the PREP Act. Which means they would not be out for many years. Now, lets assume they are as effective, then the FDA would provide EUA approval.

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2 hours ago, bigrednole said:

But only the first ones out in the US will be protected by the PREP Act. The FDA and government do not have to extend the protections to whoever comes out second. Assuming Pfizer gets the FDA EUA agreement, then it may be the only Pharma in the US protected by the PREP Act. If that is the case, it means all others will be open to lawsuits on any adverse affects. That plays a tremendous factor in it from a US perspective. 

Not true. From the PHA's documentation relative to Covid-19:

 

"In general, for the COVID-19 pandemic, a Covered Countermeasure includes any medical product used for COVID-19 that is approved, cleared, or licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), used under an Investigational New Drug (IND) application or an Investigational Device Exemption (IDE), authorized under an EUA issued by the FDA, described in an Emergency Use Instruction (EUI) issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), or otherwise permitted to be held or used for emergency use in accordance with federal law, including the following:

  • any antiviral, any other drug, any biologic, any diagnostic, any other device, any respiratory protective device, or any vaccine, used a) to treat, diagnose, cure, prevent, mitigate or limit the harm from COVID-19, or the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 or a virus mutating therefrom, or b) to limit the harm that COVID-19, or the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 or a virus mutating therefrom, might otherwise cause; or any device used in the administration of any such product, and all components and constituent materials of any such product"
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36 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

If there is a vaccine that is already out and assume the number is right at 90%, the FDA is not going to give EUA rights to another Pharma that is not as effective. It would be unethical to even release it knowing that you could not take another's vaccine. So yes, if Pfizer is accurate with 90% effective rate and say Moderna comes out 5 months later at 50%, the FDA is not going to give them EUA approval. Pfizer and the government will ramp up manufacturers to meet the demand. Moderna would have to launch without protections from the PREP Act. Which means they would not be out for many years. Now, lets assume they are as effective, then the FDA would provide EUA approval.

There is no basis in fact for this supposition. 

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2 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

They are all the same but I guess our insurance only covered a certain brand.  It must be like how they cover certain band named drugs vs generic. My wife has the top plan from NYU and they usually pay out well. This was just strange to us too. The chain drug stores always advertise free flu shots but it boils down to your insurance coverage.

Are they?  I went to a local pharmacy to get my flu shot a couple of weeks ago.  I check in, they go through all the paperwork, blah blah, then have me wait for the pharmacist.  She finally calls me back into the consultation room and says "Sorry about the delay, I wanted to make sure you got the 'good version' and had to change the paperwork."  

 

I tried to press her on what was different about the 'good version' and she wouldn't elaborate.  I'm guessing they probably get more money for the 'good version'.  But if that's the case, it seems a strange thing to tell a patient. 

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59 minutes ago, orville99 said:

There is no basis in fact for this supposition. 

There is more fact to it than you think. There is no ethical reason for the FDA to approve a vaccine that is less effective under the EUA if a better one has already been approved and readily available. It would be horribly stupid to subject people to inferior vaccines with no liability when one is already released under the protections. 

 

Hey Doc, I need to get that vaccine!! Ok, we only have this one that is half as effective, the FDA approved it, we know it causes feet to fall off and skin to melt from your face. But it is approved by the FDA to take and you accept the consequences. 

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6 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I'm sure I could come up with a underlying condition or two, but havent seen a doctor in a couple of years.

 

But the way I read what you wrote, so I'd need to go see a doctor and what get a note saying I have this or that and then going to wherever they have the vaccine to have my note checked?

 

The vaccine isnt going to be just distributed everywhere like the flu shot if it's got to be stored at sub zero conditions.

 

And my parents are not at a nursing home. They live alone but just getting them to a doctor to get a note? My 102 year old dad has a pace maker. My 94 year old mom has copd. 

 

I see issues with the roll out. Everyone wants to make light of it, but doesnt sound easy or fast to me. It also sounded like my parents would be behind those in nursing homes, though they are stuck sheltering in place. Someone said one doctor on Biden's new task force published a paper in his past about why people shouldn't live past age 75, and that as you say front line, which will take a long time, then nursing homes before those like me or my parents. ... 

 

And we havent even gotten to what the federal govt considers front line workers. Here front line workers include gun sellers and liquor distributors.. another state might not. My cousins kid works for chewy and I'm tired of hearing how important she is as a front line worker. ... I see some issues who is a front line worker.

 

Easy to just say what you said, but i want to see it in writing, not just what you heard which is vague to me., every state is different who is front line. I'd like to see my parents .... and me before some kids tbh who might qualify as front line. 

 

 

I would hope you would need proof of underlying conditions such as your script for heart pills, diabetes, BP medication, etc.  otherwise oh my uncle, friend, sister is a doctor, just write me a note.

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1 hour ago, bigrednole said:

There is more fact to it than you think. There is no ethical reason for the FDA to approve a vaccine that is less effective under the EUA if a better one has already been approved and readily available. It would be horribly stupid to subject people to inferior vaccines with no liability when one is already released under the protections. 

 

Hey Doc, I need to get that vaccine!! Ok, we only have this one that is half as effective, the FDA approved it, we know it causes feet to fall off and skin to melt from your face. But it is approved by the FDA to take and you accept the consequences. 

Classic post hoc logic

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15 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

I think that Dorothy would fall into Phase 3 vaccinations in Ohio which may not be until the fall of 2021. 

 

https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20397844-ohio-covid-19-vaccination-draft-plan_final-draft-1

 

Nope. I'm part of senior citizen community. At worst, I'm in Phase 2. See you onboard.

 

Dorothy

 

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2 hours ago, bigrednole said:

There is more fact to it than you think. There is no ethical reason for the FDA to approve a vaccine that is less effective under the EUA if a better one has already been approved and readily available. It would be horribly stupid to subject people to inferior vaccines with no liability when one is already released under the protections. 

 

Hey Doc, I need to get that vaccine!! Ok, we only have this one that is half as effective, the FDA approved it, we know it causes feet to fall off and skin to melt from your face. But it is approved by the FDA to take and you accept the consequences. 

The FDA approves many drugs for the same condition, with varying degrees of effectiveness and side effects. 

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