New CDC Guidelines for Vaccinated People

[broberts]

22 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

As much as simple explanations are politically appealing, don’t you think there might be some other differences between the US and Canada that might explain the different results? Differences in populations? racial makeup? Risk factor prevalence? Ease of access to healthcare? When I trained in Canada we learned that everything had worse outcomes in the US!  Heart disease, neonatal death rates, diabetes, you name it! Right now, though.we prefer to keep things simple and on message.
Also, if lockdowns work, why are Covid per capita incidence and death rates virtually identical in California and Florida which took completely different approaches? 

Follow the science!

 

 

 

Which is it, lockdowns don't work or many factors are at play?

 

I don't consider more than 6% difference in deaths per million "virtually identical".

[firefly333]

8 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

I'm so jealous that you guys are open down there while my Province is being warned of a terrible third wave and to except more mass lockdowns in April......who has it wrong....or to be more positive.....who has it right???

I wouldnt say we are so open down here, only that each place can make rules. For instance tom thumb grocery said they will quit policing... a few days later they "had been convinced to walk it back and masks still required". 

 

Today a older lady walked into a bank in Galveston or maybe it was yesterday. Wasnt wearing a mask. Police called. She yelled about elderly abuse and everything else but got arrested. Even got her on resisting arrest. .. I think she thought she was free to go maskless lololol. I watched the take down. Hilarious. We are a long way from open to me until I can grocery shop without wearing a mask.

[Etta1213]

12 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Which is it, lockdowns don't work or many factors are at play?

 

I don't consider more than 6% difference in deaths per million "virtually identical".

One issue that complicates the picture is that govt money flows to hospitals based on covid cases, more money for ventilator use, questionable way of counting deaths as covid deaths in some cases. We may never really know.

[Missusdubbya]

8 hours ago, TheMastodon said:

Yea lockdowns don’t work.  Make your voice be heard!  

They work in my country. Perhaps you’d like to stop spreading misinformation?

 

7 hours ago, broberts said:

 

They do work, the data supports this. But when there are zealots determined to undermine lockdowns they are less effective. Same with mask wearing.

 

More than half a million dead in 12 months suggests the anti mask, anti lockdown, it will go away naturally crowd got it terribly wrong.

So terribly sad
 

7 hours ago, TheMastodon said:

 

Show me please - I enjoy data.  Also - most masks don't work for this purpose.  N95 is a diff story.  

 

here is some data for you, lockdowns do work in containing virus spread

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/coronavirus-cases-data-reveals-how-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704?nw=0

 

Cases in Australia (left axis is number of cases)

[broberts]

6 minutes ago, Etta1213 said:

One issue that complicates the picture is that govt money flows to hospitals based on covid cases, more money for ventilator use, questionable way of counting deaths as covid deaths in some cases. We may never really know.

 

Rubbish. 

[Etta1213]

13 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Rubbish. 

For example, if a heart attack victim is rushed to the hospital, tests positive for covid, dies, is it a covid death? On one of the threads, maybe not Royal C, a person told about how his/her facility manipulated numbers. I have no idea how prevalent if at all. Once money and politics are mixed in, "facts" are hard to ascertain. Schools in my area have been open, doing fine, compared to areas with powerful teachers' unions, where it is judged too dangerous to open till more govt money flows for new hvac systems etc etc etc. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Etta1213

[broberts]

5 hours ago, Etta1213 said:

For example, if a heart attack victim is rushed to the hospital, tests positive for covid, dies, is it a covid death? On one of the threads, maybe not Royal C, a person told about how his/her facility manipulated numbers. I have no idea how prevalent if at all. Once money and politics are mixed in, "facts" are hard to ascertain. Schools in my area have been open, doing fine, compared to areas with powerful teachers' unions, where it is judged too dangerous to open till more govt money flows for new hvac systems etc etc etc. 

 

You don't trust doctors because you know better than them how to diagnose cause of death?

 

You don't trust teachers, at least those out of district, because you know better than them their local conditions?

 

Curiously, you do believe "someone" on the internet claiming hospitals routinely commit fraud?

[ace2542]

15 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

I'm so jealous that you guys are open down there while my Province is being warned of a terrible third wave and to except more mass lockdowns in April......who has it wrong....or to be more positive.....who has it right???

But as you have said in previous threads - and you would know better than most of us here - Canada has vaccinated what about a couple of hundred people in Ontario? Ok maybe a bit more than that but not anything on the scale of Israel, UK, US, Serbia or even Russia have done? So yeah a third wave maybe on the horizon.

[Mapleleafforever]

2 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

But as you have said in previous threads - and you would know better than most of us here - Canada has vaccinated what about a couple of hundred people in Ontario? Ok maybe a bit more than that but not anything on the scale of Israel, UK, US, Serbia or even Russia have done? So yeah a third wave maybe on the horizon.

They're ramping up vaccines big time apparently but more importantly we never really fixed our problem with long term care homes which is where the problem really lies. It's disgraceful really. Had the military in to help in 2020 and they were horrified with what they saw. I can't wait for the commission of inquiry. 

[ace2542]

Just now, Mapleleafforever said:

They're ramping up vaccines big time apparently but more importantly we never really fixed our problem with long term care homes which is where the problem really lies. It's disgraceful really. Had the military in to help in 2020 and they were horrified with what they saw. I can't wait for the commission of inquiry. 

That ramping up might not be enough though. It apparently takes 3 weeks for first dose or single shot johnson to offer the protection or so I have heard. You might be lucky and get on top of it.

[CaroleSS]

How do you explain this?

"A man who died in a motorcycle crash was counted as a COVID-19 death"

 

https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report

 

[MommaBear55]

6 hours ago, Etta1213 said:

For example, if a heart attack victim is rushed to the hospital, tests positive for covid, dies, is it a covid death? On one of the threads, maybe not Royal C, a person told about how his/her facility manipulated numbers. I have no idea how prevalent if at all. Once money and politics are mixed in, "facts" are hard to ascertain. Schools in my area have been open, doing fine, compared to areas with powerful teachers' unions, where it is judged too dangerous to open till more govt money flows for new hvac systems etc etc etc. 

The fact is over the last 12 months, the US has had 700,000 deaths in excess of what would normally be expected. The medical statisticians actually theorize that the Covid deaths are actually quite a bit higher than recorded.

Here are two very data heavy articles:

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

 

 

 

 

[MommaBear55]

3 minutes ago, CaroleSS said:

How do you explain this?

"A man who died in a motorcycle crash was counted as a COVID-19 death"

 

https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report

 

Yes, one example can be found for every fact you want to prove. There is no way that the 700,000 excess deaths in the US in the last 12 months can be explained away by claiming inaccurate recording of cause of death. 

[CaroleSS]

5 minutes ago, MommaBear55 said:

Yes, one example can be found for every fact you want to prove. There is no way that the 700,000 excess deaths in the US in the last 12 months can be explained away by claiming inaccurate recording of cause of death. 

It was an example of hospitals misrepresenting cause of death to attain additional funding. I am NOT minimizing those that have died from Covid, but just showing that number inflation does occur.

 

And yet, Covid deaths are still overshadowed by heart disease and cancer. Where is the outrage about all the money we've poured into cancer research with no "cure" or vaccine for that?

Edited March 14, 2021 by CaroleSS

[Mapleleafforever]

4 minutes ago, CaroleSS said:

It was an example of hospitals misrepresenting cause of death to attain additional funding. I am NOT minimizing those that have died from Covid, but just showing that number inflation does occur.

 

And yet, Covid deaths are still overshadowed by heart disease and cancer. Where is the outrage about all the money we've poured into cancer research with no "cure" or vaccine for that?

Actual tweet from my hometown last summer. Official health agency Twitter account. 

 

[time4u2go]

30 minutes ago, MommaBear55 said:

Yes, one example can be found for every fact you want to prove. There is no way that the 700,000 excess deaths in the US in the last 12 months can be explained away by claiming inaccurate recording of cause of death. 

This is something that people seem to conveniently ignore.  While there undoubtedly have been incorrectly-recorded causes of death in some cases, there have been hundreds of thousands more deaths than usual in the U. S. in the last 12 months:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

[Keksie]

People can argue for and against lockdowns and mask mandates all year long.  I am just happy to live where lockdowns started ending in May and everything has been open for months.  Where businesses have required masks but not really enforced them.  Where holidays have been celebrated with families. Where our numbers of positive tests and deaths are no higher then other places.

[broberts]

41 minutes ago, CaroleSS said:

How do you explain this?

"A man who died in a motorcycle crash was counted as a COVID-19 death"

 

https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report

 

 

Humans being human, it is no surprise that mistakes get made.

 

26 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Actual tweet from my hometown last summer. Official health agency Twitter account. 

 

 

Are you suggesting that people with covid should not be included in the covid case count?

 

Where in that tweet does it say that cause of death should be attributed to covid?

[Mikew0805]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

You don't trust doctors because you know better than them how to diagnose cause of death?

 

You don't trust teachers, at least those out of district, because you know better than them their local conditions?

 

Curiously, you do believe "someone" on the internet claiming hospitals routinely commit fraud?

All of this right here. It's amazing isn't it? 

 

41 minutes ago, CaroleSS said:

How do you explain this?

"A man who died in a motorcycle crash was counted as a COVID-19 death"

 

https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report

 

A little bit of research and you will find it was removed a couple days later. You will also find out how the mistake occurred. 

 

 

 

[Mapleleafforever]

2 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Humans being human, it is no surprise that mistakes get made.

 

 

Are you suggesting that people with covid should not be included in the covid case count?

 

Where in that tweet does it say that cause of death should be attributed to covid?

It says it right in the tweet. "Individuals who have died with Covid-19, but not as a direct result of Covid-19 are included in the case counts for Covid DEATHS in Toronto". So if someone died in a car accident but they tested positive for Covid Toronto counts it as a Covid death. 

[coffeebean]

12 hours ago, Hammergirl said:

But if the adults are vaccinated, what does it matter if the kids (or anyone else for that matter) transmit it or not? Otherwise, what is the point of getting yourself vaccinated? 

 

There is never going to be a time where every single human in the entire world is going to be vaccinated. So if you are scared of someone transmitting the virus to you even though you have been vaccinated, you might as well never leave your house. 

My concern is  not for my safety as I have had both my shots. I'm good to go at this point. I'm also not going to make anyone else sick if what the preliminary findings about vaccinated people NOT transmitting the virus to others holds true. (I HOPE SO)!!!

 

My concern is for the outcome of the cruise and everyone's cruise vacation. What will be the protocol if there is an outbreak of Covid on a cruise ship? Do we miss ports? Are passengers quarantined? Will our cruise be cut short and head back to the embarkation port? So many concerns that need to be addressed.

 

 

[coffeebean]

17 minutes ago, Keksie said:

People can argue for and against lockdowns and mask mandates all year long.  I am just happy to live where lockdowns started ending in May and everything has been open for months.  Where businesses have required masks but not really enforced them.  Where holidays have been celebrated with families. Where our numbers of positive tests and deaths are no higher then other places.

Our family was smart about not celebrating holidays in 2020 in Florida. There will always be another holiday and we will all be alive to celebrate. We are all vaccinated now with the exception of hubby who is getting his second shot the end of this month. Can't wait to celebrate the holidays in 2021 and be safe about it.

[Mapleleafforever]

8 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

My concern is  not for my safety as I have had both my shots. I'm good to go at this point. I'm also not going to make anyone else sick if what the preliminary findings about vaccinated people NOT transmitting the virus to others holds true. (I HOPE SO)!!!

 

My concern is for the outcome of the cruise and everyone's cruise vacation. What will be the protocol if there is an outbreak of Covid on a cruise ship? Do we miss ports? Are passengers quarantined? Will our cruise be cut short and head back to the embarkation port? So many concerns that need to be addressed.

 

 

I'm not concerned for my safety in the least and I'm not even vaccinated yet.

 

These are going to be concerns for quite some time no matter the vaccination status of who's on board. Even with a 100% fully vaccinated ship there will still be positive cases so yeah, they're gonna have to have some good plans to deal with them. 

[vacationlover_mn]

13 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

 

My concern is for the outcome of the cruise and everyone's cruise vacation. What will be the protocol if there is an outbreak of Covid on a cruise ship? Do we miss ports? Are passengers quarantined? Will our cruise be cut short and head back to the embarkation port? So many concerns that need to be addressed.

 

 

I share the same concern.  It will be interesting to see how they handle these situations, once US cruises resume.  Our cruise isn’t until February, so DH and I have some time to see how it all plays out.  We have cancel for any reason insurance, and will likely cancel if the cruises are dropping ports or cutting the cruise short due to a couple of covid cases onboard.

[coffeebean]

1 minute ago, Mapleleafforever said:

I'm not concerned for my safety in the least and I'm not even vaccinated yet.

 

These are going to be concerns for quite some time no matter the vaccination status of who's on board. Even with a 100% fully vaccinated ship there will still be positive cases so yeah, they're gonna have to have some good plans to deal with them. 

I don't understand how anyone could not be vaccinated and still feel safe from Covid. It just boggles my mind that you are not concerned for your safety. Are you also not concerned for the safety of your loved ones? Do you realize you can contract Covid, be asymptomatic and transmit that disease to a loved one?

 

I'm baffled at your disregard of all those people who have died with Covid. I'm not saying they died of Covid but with Covid which hastened their deaths. Many people live many many years of active life styles with Diabetes as an example but they have died with Covid much sooner than they would have died without Covid.