DeSantis could sink our chances of cruising out of Florida

[ticketsunlimited]

While we all thought DeSantis was coming to our rescue by suing the Government to allow cruising out of Florida he throws in his own personal monkey wrench.

He could push cruising out of Florida back months if not a year by not allowing the cruising companies to make their own decision to cruise with only vaccinated passengers and crew to start.  This should be the decision of the Companies running their business and the customers using their service.  

DeSantis’ press office on Monday asserted that his recent executive order barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccinated customers extends to cruise lines operating in Florida.

This is not going to go well I am afraid.

[sandebeach]

I was just reading a Sun Sentinel  article about this. So I guess he does have authority over private businesses??

[cruisinghawg]

I believe the "suggestion" was Florida businesses. I think the cruise lines are foreign entity's.

[PelicanBill]

Someone's gonna have to take it to court to see if he can really do this by executive order. I think that a law is required for that level of regulation unless it can be shown to be an emergency order. But that would be contrary to prior DeSantis actions and would not hold up either.

 

What is true is DeSantis can require government agencies to not use any vaccine proof.

 

[Ourusualbeach]

II read n article stating that he does not have the legal authority to enforce this on cruise ships.  We will see how this plays out

[PelicanBill]

2 minutes ago, cruisinghawg said:

I believe the "suggestion" was Florida businesses. I think the cruise lines are foreign entity's.

 

Not really true. Each cruise line operates a US based company for sales and operations.  DeSantis can't regulate the ships. But we have plenty of port regulation for that.

 

What remains to be seen is if DeSantis can really tell businesses what to do, without a law backing it up, and whether he has authority over the local port authorities operated by the counties.

[harkinmr]

52 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

I was just reading a Sun Sentinel  article about this. So I guess he does have authority over private businesses??

He "thinks" he has that authority.  Just saying it does not make it so.  He cannot restrict any business legally operating in Florida from applying reasonable and non-discriminatory (legally defined discrimination) restrictions on access.  Businesses do it all the time, as evidenced by the many, many businesses here in Florida that require and enforce masks and social distancing, to name just a few.  There may well be challenges to vaccine access being discriminatory, but achieving "protected class" status is going to be a tough (and likely unsuccessful) road.  Lastly, ports are controlled at local, state and federal levels.  It is very murky indeed.  But cruises are international travel, and simply based on that he has no authority.

[dswallow]

He has no authority to do this. His executive order will die in court if it even ever gets that far. The basis is on his executive order declaring rules for issuing/suspending business licenses are automatically changed to permit or require that business licenses can be revoked based upon requirements to show vaccination information, hence the working concept is his executive order would force other departments to suspend any business license needed to operate where a vaccination is being checked.

Otherwise the only other aspect is it prohibits the government from doing business with entities requiring vaccination proof, which I'm pretty sure couldn't make any difference.

 

You can't just make up laws. There are limited circumstances where things like executive orders could override legislative directives, and there'd need to be some basis for taking that action as well, I'm sure.

 

Anyway, that'll work itself out. Cruise lines do have other US alternatives than Florida ports if that became the only impediment. It may not be ideal, but it's workable if it needs to be. The same approach the cruise lines are using now with non-US home ports can be used against Florida, as well.

[Big_G]

I thought I read part of his argument with the CDC is that everyone (adults) would be vaccinated. I'll have to find it.

[Big_G]

9 minutes ago, Big_G said:

I thought I read part of his argument with the CDC is that everyone (adults) would be vaccinated. I'll have to find it.

I read it wrong. Here are his comments from March. He never mentions vaccine requirement.

 

“To say that you can’t sail by the time we get to the end of June, the CDC is basically saying the vaccines don’t work then,” said Gov. DeSantis. “They’re basically anti-vaxxers.”

[kccrzr]

I booked 4 cruises out of FL in 1st Q 2022 with expectation that vaccinations would be required.  If they are not, I will cancel.  IMHO a no vaccine required policy is likely to cause many to cancel so not sure it would have the positive effect on tourism dollars some seem to expect.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

6 minutes ago, kccrzr said:

I booked 4 cruises out of FL in 1st Q 2022 with expectation that vaccinations would be required.  If they are not, I will cancel.  IMHO a no vaccine required policy is likely to cause many to cancel so not sure it would have the positive effect on tourism dollars some seem to expect.

 

Yes.  We booked on Adventure this summer only because vaccines were required for adults, many of whom are older or medically vulnerable.

 

I'm not worried about getting the virus myself.  I'm worried that if a third of the adult passengers are unvaccinated, they could host an outbreak and scuttle the cruise.

[ArthurUSCG]

12 minutes ago, kccrzr said:

I booked 4 cruises out of FL in 1st Q 2022 with expectation that vaccinations would be required.  If they are not, I will cancel.  IMHO a no vaccine required policy is likely to cause many to cancel so not sure it would have the positive effect on tourism dollars some seem to expect.

I'm with you. We have a multigeneration cruise booked for Thanksgiving and a few in 2022 as well, without a vaccine requirement for all crew and passengers for all that are eligible (currently 16+), we will be cancelling.

[bouhunter]

2 hours ago, ticketsunlimited said:

While we all thought DeSantis was coming to our rescue by suing the Government to allow cruising out of Florida he throws in his own personal monkey wrench.

He could push cruising out of Florida back months if not a year by not allowing the cruising companies to make their own decision to cruise with only vaccinated passengers and crew to start.  This should be the decision of the Companies running their business and the customers using their service.  

DeSantis’ press office on Monday asserted that his recent executive order barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccinated customers extends to cruise lines operating in Florida.

This is not going to go well I am afraid.

Cruises aren't going from Florida for months yet, with or without vaccines.  It's a waste of time to discuss or debate something that will likely change and be sorted out while the ships continue so sit idle.

[TMLAalum]

To work, I have had to have frequent FBI background checks and drug tests with the results being kept by my employer. Since I wanted my job I chose to submit to these requirements. If a cruiseline requires  proof of vaccination, again it is my choice to follow their rules or to decide the rules infringe on my privacy and not cruise. Already there are rules in place that disallow certain health conditions for cruising or participating in cruise activities, e.g. age, weight, back problems, pregnancy beyond a certain # of months, infancy....Disallowing unvaccinated or covid + people to cruise is no different IMHO.

 

[Shorewalk Holmes]

30 minutes ago, twangster said:

I think there is more to it than anti-vax.  Plenty of his supporters are clearly vaxxers.

Yes.  Polls show more opposition to businesses requiring vaccination proof than to the vaccines themselves.

 

I understand your privacy concerns.  But we can hope that, for most walk-in businesses, the only requirement might be to show a card that they don't copy. 

 

But cruise lines may do what you worry about -- keep the information.  Does this mean that you wouldn't book a vaccine-required cruise?  Or would you wait for the vaccine requirement to disappear?

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[Tree_skier]

2 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

What remains to be seen is if DeSantis can really tell businesses what to do, without a law backing it up,

We have watched governors all over the country tell businesses what to do for the last year with very little restraint from the courts.  I'd say if the Gov of Michigan can prevent the sale on non-essential goods in big box stores and make them rope off garden seed the Gov. of Florida can do the opposite.

[ArthurUSCG]

46 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

I think there is more to it than anti-vax.  Plenty of his supporters are clearly vaxxers.

 

There are massive privacy concerns when private businesses start collecting health information on you.  It may start with a simple CV-19 vax Y/N data point but it's a slippery slope.  How will business use this information?  Will they sell the databases they collect to other businesses so they can target you with advertising?

 

I don't do FB because it is just one massive data collection engine.  Why would I want any private business to know what my health choices are, or if I couldn't get vaccinated for a valid medical or other reason?

 

Not everything DeSantis says is wild or crazy.  

The current vaccine passport systems don't exchange any info with the business. The systems are designed so the business requirements are sent to the passport server and the server check to see if you are in compliance. If you are, it will display the approval (usually a Green check) on the person's and on the businesses devices. No medical data is exchanged.

 

If you aren't in compliance, it will display that (usually a red X), the business will not be informed why you were not in compliance, they will only know that you weren't in compliance.

Edited April 13, 2021 by ArthurUSCG

[RonPaula]

The vaccine passport system reminds me of the TSA no-fly list. Full of holes.

[NightOne]

2 minutes ago, RonPaula said:

The vaccine passport system reminds me of the TSA no-fly list. Full of holes.

 

Vaccine passport system reminds me of National Socialism Germany 😱

Edited April 13, 2021 by NightOne

[PelicanBill]

55 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

We have watched governors all over the country tell businesses what to do for the last year with very little restraint from the courts.  I'd say if the Gov of Michigan can prevent the sale on non-essential goods in big box stores and make them rope off garden seed the Gov. of Florida can do the opposite.

Yes, As temporary measures under emergency executive orders with temporary powers. To control a public health threat.

 

An Executive Order controlling private business isn't going to stand up in court. It will require a law passed by the FL legislature to say that vaccine passports and proof cannot be used to decide who can be admitted to private property.

 

 

[twangster]

49 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

The current vaccine passport systems don't exchange any info with the business. The systems are designed so the business requirements are sent to the passport server and the server check to see if you are in compliance. If you are, it will display the approval (usually a Green check) on the person's and on the businesses devices. No medical data is exchanged.

 

If you aren't in compliance, it will display that (usually a red X), the business will not be informed why you were not in compliance, they will only know that you weren't in compliance.

 

What vaccine passport system?  

[PelicanBill]

3 hours ago, Stallion said:

 

United States Constitution Art. 1

Section 8.

The Congress shall have power ....

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;....

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

 

Not sure what point you are making? But I am open to clarification.

DeSantis' isn't Congress, and he has authority over FL state government operations. My point was about the extent of power of a Governor's executive order.

 

[crazyank]

12 minutes ago, NightOne said:

 

Vaccine passport system reminds me of National Socialism Germany 😱

Mot even close,  you should take a look at what law the German parliament endorsed today.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

3 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

 

Not really true. Each cruise line operates a US based company for sales and operations.  DeSantis can't regulate the ships. But we have plenty of port regulation for that.

 

What remains to be seen is if DeSantis can really tell businesses what to do, without a law backing it up, and whether he has authority over the local port authorities operated by the counties.

 

Well I'm not sure about a government executive action for or against a vaccine, but they damn sure have controlled our lives w/ regards to the openings and closings of business' and mandating masks and so forth. It's kind of weird reading that a Gov should leave business' along and allow them to make their own policies when for the last year this simply has not been the case. And nationwide too. 

 

Having said this, to date, there has been NO policy issued by any cruise company requiring vaccines from a cruise ship leaving a US port.