CDC Delays Cruising for a While

[SilvertoGold]

1 minute ago, cbr663 said:

Of the 14 elements that the CDC identified as a minimum that cruise ships need to consider in their plans, this is most concerning for me as a cruise traveler:

 

"j.A medical care plan addressing onboard care versus evacuation to on-shore hospitals for critically ill individuals, specifying how availability of beds for critically ill at local hospitals will be determined in advance and how the cruise ship operator will ensure acceptance at local medical facilities to treat the critically ill in a manner that limits the burden on Federal, State, and local resources and avoids, to the greatest extent possible, medivac situations. If medical evacuation is necessary arrangements for evacuation must be made with commercial resources (e.g., ship tender, chartered standby vessel, chartered airlift) and arrangements made with a designated medical facility that has agreed to accept such evacuees. All medical evacuation plans must be coordinated with the U.S. Coast Guard;"

 

There are other elements noted that build on this, and for the sake of brevity, I did not want to copy all of them.  The intent, as I read it, is that critically ill passengers should expect that they will have to remain on board of ships and be cared for on board.  If evacuation is needed, it will be done using commercial sources and not government funded sources.

 

 

I don't see this happening.   Medivac for heart attack and other emergencies is the norm on cruise ships.   The idea of cruise ships as intensive care hospitals is ridiculous.

[zelker]

This is what concerns me - that in most instances medical evacuation companies like MedjetAssist can't respond to COVID-19 patients. 😨

 

 https://medjetassist.com/medjet-blog/blog/2020/01/24/medjet-services-alert-coronavirus

[IB2]

13 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

Of the 14 elements that the CDC identified as a minimum that cruise ships need to consider in their plans, this is most concerning for me as a cruise traveler:

 

"j.A medical care plan addressing onboard care versus evacuation to on-shore hospitals for critically ill individuals, specifying how availability of beds for critically ill at local hospitals will be determined in advance and how the cruise ship operator will ensure acceptance at local medical facilities to treat the critically ill in a manner that limits the burden on Federal, State, and local resources and avoids, to the greatest extent possible, medivac situations. If medical evacuation is necessary arrangements for evacuation must be made with commercial resources (e.g., ship tender, chartered standby vessel, chartered airlift) and arrangements made with a designated medical facility that has agreed to accept such evacuees. All medical evacuation plans must be coordinated with the U.S. Coast Guard;"

 

There are other elements noted that build on this, and for the sake of brevity, I did not want to copy all of them.  The intent, as I read it, is that critically ill passengers should expect that they will have to remain on board of ships and be cared for on board.  If evacuation is needed, it will be done using commercial sources and not government funded sources.

 

If one good thing for cruising comes out of this crisis, it will be that ships no longer accept on board passengers who are, objectively, already seriously ill and shouldn’t be allowed to travel in the first place.

[SargassoPirate]

17 hours ago, casavaha said:

If anything, this virus might force people on cruise ships to wash their hands after

restroom visits.  I am sure all of us have seen pax leave the bathrooms without washing

hands.

 

 

 

I'd bet we'll see more handwashing than ever before.  I'm like the TV character Monk about touching common surfaces and then washing my hands or sanitizing.  In years past we have received strange looks from people for resanitizing our hands at the table after touching the chair to pull it in and the menu.  And for sure in the buffet after touching common-use ladles and tongs.

 

This virus is easily controlled by handwashing and keeping your hands away from your face.  What we can't control is the people who don't wash their hands, spread it, and then impact our travel plans.

[thyme2go]

How does one decide someone is 'objectivey seriously ill'?   This is the crux of illusions as I could not tell you who smokes without seeing them smoke.....or smelling their clothing.  Smokers are high risk and would they be considered 'serously ill'?   I don't smoke but I think this represents the simplification of issues on screening passengers. 

 

Cruiselines need to address the gamut of medical necessities they use/or face.   Ultimately I can't imagine my life being normalized until I have an antibody test or some testing available to me at my request locally.   We cannot extract herd immunity as proof that everyone is safe and so far ALL testing in the USA has been MIA to the point that scammers are setting up 'testing stations'.............a sad state of affairs.   This is the data and information we need........maybe CLIA can take a leadership position with this though it is a double edged sword.

[npcl]

13 hours ago, Fredric22 said:

All-inclusive resorts and casinos are a few comparable land-based destinations that come to mind.  There is just as much interaction at some of these resorts as there are on cruise ships.  I have to agree with CLIA in that the cruise industry is most definitely being singled out.  The ironic thing is, the airline industry is actually responsible for transporting COVID-19 to all corners of the planet.  In fact, right now, someone living in NYC (the hottest of hot zones in the world) can take a flight to another city in the USA with no problem and they will not get tested upon boarding the aircraft nor upon landing at their US destination.  It amazes me that the CDC is so fixated on cruise ships.  Lastly, Florida is quite happy to enjoy all of the economic benefits that come with millions of tourists coming through ports each year, but in a crisis, it is like "Oh, sorry, have we met?"  Clearly, this is a global crisis and cruise ships all over the world have crews on board that cannot go back to their home countries due to travel restrictions that were implemented almost overnight.  I really don't think it is too much to ask to treat a few crew members who are in critical need of care, especially if cruise lines are footing the bill.  I'm not sure if politics are in play here, but something about the way that the CDC has been handling this seems strange to me.  It seems clear to me that the cruise industry and the CDC are not friends right now.  Even more bizarre is that Trump is friends with Micky Arison.  

For those that think cruise lines are being unfairly singled out I did a little research and put together the following

 

20 ships out of approximately 100 in and around the US either had cases develop with passengers on board or among the crew after disembarking passengers. Note this list does not include those ships that did not leave from the US and that had to come all the way back to the US to disembark passengers (Zaandam,Coral Princess, etc)

 

All of these ships boarded either in late February or early March. On March 13 when the cruise lines suspended service the US had 2183 confirmed cases.

 

We have seen from the Coral Princess, the Grand Princess, the Diamond Princess, the Ruby Princess, as well as the ill crew that continue to come off the ships off shore just how fast and far this spreads on a ship.

 

• Celebrity Eclipse

• Grand Princess

• Norwegian Bliss

• Norwegian Breakaway

• Norwegian Pride of America

• Oceania Riviera

• Royal Caribbean: Liberty of the Seas

• Royal Caribbean: Oasis of the Seas

• Royal Caribbean: Symphony of the Seas

• Carnival Imagination

• Carnival Valor

• Carnival Vista

• Celebrity Infinity

• Celebrity Reflection

• Celebrity Summit

• Crown Princess

• Disney Wonder

• Grand Celebration

• MSC Meraviglia

• Royal Caribbean Explorer of the Seas 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by npcl

[Tampa Girl]

18 hours ago, npcl said:

The more I see the cruise lines more focused on PR than actually working to use their resources to actually help their crew and make things safer, the less I feel the desire to book more cruises.

 

 

 

I don't know what first-hand knowledge you have that results in the opinion that the cruise lines are not actaully using their resources to help their crew and make things safer.  Perhaps you could share that knowledge with us?

[npcl]

18 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

I don't know what first-hand knowledge you have that results in the opinion that the cruise lines are not actaully using their resources to help their crew and make things safer.  Perhaps you could share that knowledge with us?

Not first hand but consistent reports from crew members on board.

 

For a few examples the reports include:

1. not telling crew members about illness on board

2. running and encouraging normal activities, instead of social distancing on board those ships with illness

3. CLIA had put together a plan and framework (you can find the information in the recent CDC document putting the no sail in place) where they were supposed to use some ships to be able to separate crewmembers by cohort, putting the ill on one ship, putting those in quarantine on other ships, etc.  Instead the report indicate that they are keeping the sick on the same ships.

4. Then when someone is seriously ill they bring them into port and depend upon shore based facilities again counter to the response plan that the CLIA presented to the CDC on March 13 and April 6.

 

These are documented in a number of places but to save time here is a good article from business insider that does a good job of discussing the situation

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cruise-line-crew-workers-lose-salaries-benefits-over-coronavirus-2020-4

[victory2020]

7 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

I'd bet we'll see more handwashing than ever before.  I'm like the TV character Monk about touching common surfaces and then washing my hands or sanitizing.  In years past we have received strange looks from people for resanitizing our hands at the table after touching the chair to pull it in and the menu.  And for sure in the buffet after touching common-use ladles and tongs.

 

This virus is easily controlled by handwashing and keeping your hands away from your face.  What we can't control is the people who don't wash their hands, spread it, and then impact our travel plans.

Haha, My husband won't even go into the buffet area & I will not touch a serving utensil that I've seen any one else use - it's one good way to not gain a lot of weigh ton a cruise!

[cbr663]

8 hours ago, SilvertoGold said:

 

I don't see this happening.   Medivac for heart attack and other emergencies is the norm on cruise ships.   The idea of cruise ships as intensive care hospitals is ridiculous.

 

It "may" have been the norm, but it is clear going forward that the CDC wants significant changes.  Here are 2 more elements from the document that provide more clarity:

 

"g.  Onboard medical staffing, including number and type of staff, and equipment in sufficient quantity to provide a hospital level of care ( e.g., ventilators, facemasks, personal protective equipment) for the infected without the need for hospitalization onshore;

h.  An outbreak management and response plan to provision and assist an affected cruise ship that relies on industry resources, e.g., mobilization of additional cruise ships or other vessels to act as “hospital” ship for the infected, “quarantine” ship for the exposed, and “residential” ship for those providing care and treatment, including the ability to transport individuals between ships as needed;"

[Nymich]

5 hours ago, npcl said:

For those that think cruise lines are being unfairly singled out I did a little research and put together the following

 

20 ships out of approximately 100 in and around the US either had cases develop with passengers on board or among the crew after disembarking passengers. Note this list does not include those ships that did not leave from the US and that had to come all the way back to the US to disembark passengers (Zaandam,Coral Princess, etc)

 

All of these ships boarded either in late February or early March. On March 13 when the cruise lines suspended service the US had 2183 confirmed cases.

 

We have seen from the Coral Princess, the Grand Princess, the Diamond Princess, the Ruby Princess, as well as the ill crew that continue to come off the ships off shore just how fast and far this spreads on a ship.

 

• Celebrity Eclipse

• Grand Princess

• Norwegian Bliss

• Norwegian Breakaway

• Norwegian Pride of America

• Oceania Riviera

• Royal Caribbean: Liberty of the Seas

• Royal Caribbean: Oasis of the Seas

• Royal Caribbean: Symphony of the Seas

• Carnival Imagination

• Carnival Valor

• Carnival Vista

• Celebrity Infinity

• Celebrity Reflection

• Celebrity Summit

• Crown Princess

• Disney Wonder

• Grand Celebration

• MSC Meraviglia

• Royal Caribbean Explorer of the Seas 

 

and those are just the one's we know.  Great Report

[SedNabokos]

On 4/11/2020 at 5:13 AM, casavaha said:

If anything, this virus might force people on cruise ships to wash their hands after

restroom visits.  I am sure all of us have seen pax leave the bathrooms without washing

hands.

 

 

 

I doubt it'll result in anyone changing their habits, unless they are shamed into doing so.

 

The cruise lines might have to introduce "bathroom attendants" to hand you a towel after you've washed your hands, and who can call out those that try to leave without washing.

[Edithclara]

17 hours ago, npcl said:

For those that think cruise lines are being unfairly singled out I did a little research and put together the following

 

20 ships out of approximately 100 in and around the US either had cases develop with passengers on board or among the crew after disembarking passengers. Note this list does not include those ships that did not leave from the US and that had to come all the way back to the US to disembark passengers (Zaandam,Coral Princess, etc)

 

All of these ships boarded either in late February or early March. On March 13 when the cruise lines suspended service the US had 2183 confirmed cases.

 

We have seen from the Coral Princess, the Grand Princess, the Diamond Princess, the Ruby Princess, as well as the ill crew that continue to come off the ships off shore just how fast and far this spreads on a ship.

 

• Celebrity Eclipse

• Grand Princess

• Norwegian Bliss

• Norwegian Breakaway

• Norwegian Pride of America

• Oceania Riviera

• Royal Caribbean: Liberty of the Seas

• Royal Caribbean: Oasis of the Seas

• Royal Caribbean: Symphony of the Seas

• Carnival Imagination

• Carnival Valor

• Carnival Vista

• Celebrity Infinity

• Celebrity Reflection

• Celebrity Summit

• Crown Princess

• Disney Wonder

• Grand Celebration

• MSC Meraviglia

• Royal Caribbean Explorer of the Seas 

 

This link includes additional ships such as the Artania, Greg Mortimer and covid-19 numbers, as of 2020.04.10

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_on_cruise_ships

 

The USS Theordore Roosevelt is also in difficulty:

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/coronavirus/sd-based-uss-theodore-roosevelt-has-550-covid-19-cases-navy-says/2304186/

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

On 4/11/2020 at 10:51 AM, SargassoPirate said:

 

This virus is easily controlled by handwashing and keeping your hands away from your face.  What we can't control is the people who don't wash their hands, spread it, and then impact our travel plans.

 

    Can you offer a medical journal study or other mainstream scientific source to cite for this conclusion?

    I've been tracking coronavirus news pretty closely since mid-February, and so far haven't found anything suggesting this virus is "easily controlled" by anything.
 

    Checking WHO and mainstream news sources today, it appears most of the globe - from Spain to Peru to New Zealand - remains in shutdown. So it will be very intriguing to read the documentation for your post

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by EscapeFromConnecticut

[cruisemom42]

Getting back to the question I originally posed about the CDC announcement, I see that Princess has already announced (albeit with more details to come) that they are planning to halt cruising until July 1:

 

Princess Cruises is aware of the recommendation by the U.S. government to extend the pause in cruise operations and we are making plans to cancel all scheduled sailings until July 1, 2020. Since this announcement was unexpected, we are making plans to minimize the disruption to our guests and will be sharing the details of our plan by the end of the business day Tuesday, April 14. Until those details are announced, we will not be in a position to discuss any scenarios or respond to questions. We ask our guests for their patience, and encourage them to watch their email and Princess.com for updates.

 

I assume HAL will trail the pack (as usual) but probably will be making the same announcement. Backed up by the fact that they are taking crew members back home -- something they would not do if they thought start-up of operations was imminent.

[wesport]

So now, all of those refunds will be behind the first wave who were told 60 to 90 days for a refund. May , June, and July people who have made final payments might be waiting 4 to 6 months for a refund. With no revenue coming in, it should be interesting. Hope the Saudis have more money to give. Not sure where this is going to end. Really sad. 

[KirkNC]

I said in a previous post and I will say again, these new requirements may be the straw that breaks the camels back.

[wesport]

17 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I said in a previous post and I will say again, these new requirements may be the straw that breaks the camels back.

The Saudis made the investment with the assumption of a zero sail until November. Best case was 25% restart over the summer. 

[JeffElizabeth]

On 4/10/2020 at 9:57 AM, Lazy Lakes said:

People let not forget the hard working crews whom now have no jobs!!!! No Goverment hand outs. This is not just about a cruise cancelled or your deposit returned. We talking peoples lives.

And the places they go to that depend on tourists. Costa Rica depends on tourism and now the hotels are empty. Even expatriates might have gone home.

[Himself]

On 4/9/2020 at 11:16 PM, Laminator said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/cdc-extends-no-sail-order-for-cruise-ships-as-industry-ravaged-by-the-coronavirus/ar-BB12pv5w?ocid=spartandhp

 

Thumbs Down!.   Ronald Raegan once said the worse words we can hear are: "Hi, I'm from the Government I am hear to help." 

[annandme]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Getting back to the question I originally posed about the CDC announcement, I see that Princess has already announced (albeit with more details to come) that they are planning to halt cruising until July 1:

 

Princess Cruises is aware of the recommendation by the U.S. government to extend the pause in cruise operations and we are making plans to cancel all scheduled sailings until July 1, 2020. Since this announcement was unexpected, we are making plans to minimize the disruption to our guests and will be sharing the details of our plan by the end of the business day Tuesday, April 14. Until those details are announced, we will not be in a position to discuss any scenarios or respond to questions. We ask our guests for their patience, and encourage them to watch their email and Princess.com for updates.

 

I assume HAL will trail the pack (as usual) but probably will be making the same announcement. Backed up by the fact that they are taking crew members back home -- something they would not do if they thought start-up of operations was imminent.

 

Can you tell me the source, or provide a link, for the Princess announcement that you quote above?

[npcl]

7 hours ago, Edithclara said:

This link includes additional ships such as the Artania, Greg Mortimer and covid-19 numbers, as of 2020.04.10

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_on_cruise_ships

 

The USS Theordore Roosevelt is also in difficulty:

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/coronavirus/sd-based-uss-theodore-roosevelt-has-550-covid-19-cases-navy-says/2304186/

The list I put together is only those ships around the US.  That is why it does not include the others you list.

 

By limiting it to those impacted by the CDC document I have both the number infected, as well as the total number of ships in the area when those ships were infected.  I also list the total number of documented cases in the US at the last possible time any of those cruises took place to show just how few active and documented cases existed at the time.

[sansterre]

On 4/11/2020 at 10:40 AM, zelker said:

This is what concerns me - that in most instances medical evacuation companies like MedjetAssist can't respond to COVID-19 patients. 😨

 

 https://medjetassist.com/medjet-blog/blog/2020/01/24/medjet-services-alert-coronavirus

Wondering if the following restriction will stay in place, or is just temporary.

UPDATED AS OF 3/20/2020 5:30 P.M. CST

Due to governmental restrictions imposed worldwide as a result of the Coronavirus, we regret that MedjetAssist and MedjetHorizon services continue to be heavily restricted in a growing number of countries and territories, and in some areas, suspended.

Please be aware that:

• Medjet cannot transport a member infected with the Coronavirus. Transportation and repatriation of diagnosed, or potentially infected, patients has so far been controlled by the CDC and U.S. Department of State.
•  

[AV8rix]

On 4/11/2020 at 7:51 AM, SargassoPirate said:

 

I'd bet we'll see more handwashing than ever before.  I'm like the TV character Monk about touching common surfaces and then washing my hands or sanitizing.  In years past we have received strange looks from people for resanitizing our hands at the table after touching the chair to pull it in and the menu.  And for sure in the buffet after touching common-use ladles and tongs.

 

This virus is easily controlled by handwashing and keeping your hands away from your face.  What we can't control is the people who don't wash their hands, spread it, and then impact our travel plans.

Good on you! Me too!!! 

 

Even before this latest scourge, I carried vinyl or nitrile gloves on every cruise because I'm a blackjack player and won't touch the chips in the casino until 4-5 days into the cruise (past the incubation period for the Norwalk virus).  And I've NEVER touched a menu in the MDR or any other restaurant aboard.  Not necessary.  The menus are posted every day by the door of the MDR, PG, etc.  Also available on Navigator app...when it's working.  So I enter the dining venue knowing in advance what I will order.  I use stairs instead of elevators (extra benefit is calorie burn 😄) and never touch the handrails of the stairs or have to worry about elevator buttons.

 

So, although I've been on "sick" ships I've never fallen victim to either noro or respiratory "cruise crud".  And no, I'm not unduly paranoid.  Before making my midlife career change into engineering I was a clinical laboratory technologist, specializing in microbiology.  Therefore I already had respect for pathogens even before I started cruising.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Av8rix
format issues..paragraph spacing

[lderochi]

2 hours ago, annandme said:

 

Can you tell me the source, or provide a link, for the Princess announcement that you quote above?

My recollection, from other forums and threads, is that was an email sent to travel agents on Thursday which was quickly recalled and replaced with another one that deleted the reference to cancellations and the July 1 date. The new email was “Princess Cruises is aware of the April 9 order by the U.S. CDC to extend the pause in cruise operations and we are evaluating the impact this has on our scheduled sailings. Since this announcement was unexpected, we are making plans to minimize the disruption to our guests and will be sharing the details of our plan by the end of the business day on Tuesday, April 14. We will not have more information to share until the announcement next week. We ask our guests for their patience and encourage them to watch their email and notices & advisories on Princess.com for updates.”

Make of that what you will, sounds to me like somebody pushed out a draft email before it was fully approved. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by lderochi