Expect more Cancellations for rest of the year.

[BlerkOne]

There is a mandatory retirement age for airline pilots and also it is illegal to discriminate against someone appying for a loan based on age. Yep, you can be 90 and get a 30 year mortgage if you otherwise qualify.

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

That's very nice but  you're dodging the points I made.  It doesn't matter what your state requires for eye tests.  What matters is the fact that multiple states do require eye tests past a certain age.  You also failed to address whether a state can deny a drivers license for those under a certain age.  (BTW, are you aware that all states/jurisdictions forbid the sale of liquor to those under a certain age.) Those laws have been challenged and declared not to be discrimination.

 

But, more to the point, if you were to 'google' "justifying discrimination" you would find many articles similar to this one: 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/justifying-discrimination/#:~:text=The Equality Actsays discrimination can,if discrimination can be justified.

 

I'll excerpt a few paragraphs:

 

"The law which says you mustn’t be discriminated against is called the Equality Act 2010. Discrimination which is against the Equality Act is unlawful. This means you can take action in the civil courts."

"But sometimes people are allowed to discriminate against you if they have a good enough reason for doing so. They would need to be able to prove this in court, if necessary. This is known in legal terms as objective justification. If discrimination is justified, it doesn’t count as unlawful discrimination under the Equality Act."

"The Equality Actsays discrimination can be justified if the person who's discriminating against you can show it’s a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. If necessary, it's the courts which will decide if discrimination can be justified."

"A legitimate aim is the reason behind the discrimination. This reason must not be discriminatory in itself and it must be a genuine or real reason."

"Here are examples of legitimate aims:"

• "the health, safety and welfare of individuals"
• "running an efficient service"
• "requirements of a business"
• "desire to make profit."

Clearly the cruise lines could make a reasonable argument that these policies are justified on the basis of "the health, safety, and welfare of individuals".  Whether the courts would decide for the lines is another matter but there is certainly reason to believe they could.

 

You may not like the law.  You may prefer that the law was something that it isn't.  But, the law isn't on your side.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

You did not address what I answered about the military.

 

As for eye tests, I have no idea why other states do not do as mine does. I needed glasses starting in 3rd grade while DW did not until into her 40s. It's not rational to make it only for senior citizens.

 

And are you really equating not allowing 12 year olds to drink and/or drive with denying services to senior citizens? You can't be serious!

 

It's like my example of the teenager from Mississippi in 1963 justifying segregated schools as it is for their own good. Or the justification keeping women out of higher paying jobs because it was to protect the fairer sex.

 

Repeating we're just going to keep disagreeing; neither is ever going to convince the other, but at least we have had a debate that might be heated at times but never resorted to name calling.

[BlerkOne]

If there is such a thing as age discrimination, cruise lines still are subject to most US laws. And Europe doesn't have ADA.

[Cruiseboy06]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

If there is such a thing as age discrimination, cruise lines still are subject to most US laws. And Europe doesn't have ADA.

Cruiselines who want to operate out of US they have to follow ADA

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, Cruiseboy06 said:

Cruiselines who want to operate out of US they have to follow ADA

 

Parts of ADA, not all of it.

[Bgcruising]

What was the original post about?

[naxer]

Checked the thread to see if there's anything good I may have missed.  Think I'll just check out and glide by.  😗

[Derbie]

We have two cabins on the Panorama for the beginning of October.  Yes, I am sure it will be cancelled, but when?  One cabin was a rebooking with OBC, etc.  We have cruise with NCL for beginning of November, where final payment is coming soon, and I am sure we will just cancel before final payment under their peace of mind offering.  The Carnival cruise is completely paid for.  We will probably rebook for next summer or fall. Anyone have a guess on when they will finally say we done for the year folks? 

[RWolver672]

52 minutes ago, Derbie said:

 Anyone have a guess on when they will finally say we done for the year folks? 

 

I think you will see them do it a little at a time.  There's still five months left in this year and I don't think they will cancel that far ahead.  They are probably waiting to see how the ships that have already started sailing do before they make any decisions.

 

[May1cruiser]

The German cruises start this Saturday on Aida. These will be a part of the test to see what does/does not work. 

[marshhawk]

BUT, we are not in Germany, and cruise lines (unless they change the cruise rules in the USA) must stop in one other country.  AIDA I floating around from Germany to Germany with no port stops. 

 

I have two cruises B2B, one has been changed from June and we added it on the October cruise.  The CDC has requested from the cruise lines, and the passengers,  answers to 29 questions which are required by 9/21/2020.  Once they get the responses, it will take more than 30 days to process.  There also was supposed to be a big meeting with the cruise industry yesterday, so I am thinking we can all look at AIDA on their cruises, but unless we meet CDC guidelines out of this country, we aren't going to be cruising this year.  We even moved our January '21 cruise to December '21.   am thinking the announcement will be made mid August.  In the end of the day, on a Thursday. 

[ProgRockCruiser]

2 hours ago, May1cruiser said:

The German cruises start this Saturday on Aida. These will be a part of the test to see what does/does not work. 

And while the entire crew was confined to quarters after boarding, two crew members tested positive for COVID-19.  They have been removed, and the entire crew is going to be tested again (third time).  This is going to be an interesting experiment...

 

My guess (and it is only a guess) is that CCL will wait until mid-August before announcing that the October cruises are cancelled - that is 6 weeks prior, which is probably how long they need to get those few ships up and running.  Maybe they'll cancel November at the same time, but I don't think they will cancel through the end of the year.

 

:shrug:

Edited July 29, 2020 by ProgRockCruiser

[naxer]

They're bleeding money.  They will wait as long as they can.  While watching what happens in Europe is interesting, the U,.S,. is so far from that level of containment, or even agreement on how to approach the disease, we will at the most be spectators for quite a while.

[K&RCurt]

My guess is mid to late August. 

 

They need to get through the mess of re-bookings and refunds for the cruises cancelled and shuffled from the ships they got rid of.

[Schoifmom]

From a PR perspective, they are going to wait a while.  They just announced the retirement and storage of 4 ships with an accompanying round of cancellations and booking transfers.  A delay will also allow the CSRs a chance to get caught up prior to a new round of "where's my FCC" or "where's my refund" calls.  My personal crystal ball 😉 tells me that the earliest they will be cruising is December, so I do expect to see two additional rounds of cancellations.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Schoifmom

[Don Kehote]

If Carnival goes the Princess route, and cancels till December 15th, I will be both excited to rack up some OBC, and heartbroken, as I have cruises on 11/30 and 12/6 on the books that I'm positively dying to go on.

[Gamecock_Cruiser]

Norweign just announced they have suspended through the end of October now. 

 

We have an October 15th booked (our rescheduled cruise that got canceled in March). We were about to cancel due to some of the group going with us concerned about work when returning. Our final payment date is Saturday. Now I am wanting to wait so we don't loose 2/3's of our refund and OBC. But I am hoping that it comes sooner than later. 

 

But the sad part is that when we booked, we were given $500 obc + $300obc for moving the balance from our prior cruise to this one. Now I am sad that the $500 will be gone if they cancel! 

[beerman2]

NCL has officially announced cruises cancelled through October 31st. 
 

Saw a FB post from a cruise consultant who I have cruised with before. 
 

Expect others to follow!

Edited July 29, 2020 by beerman2

[zqvol]

7 hours ago, Derbie said:

We have two cabins on the Panorama for the beginning of October.  Yes, I am sure it will be cancelled, but when?  One cabin was a rebooking with OBC, etc.  We have cruise with NCL for beginning of November, where final payment is coming soon, and I am sure we will just cancel before final payment under their peace of mind offering.  The Carnival cruise is completely paid for.  We will probably rebook for next summer or fall. Anyone have a guess on when they will finally say we done for the year folks? 

I expect that you will hear something by the end of business this week. (7/31/2020)

[klfrodo]

45 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

NCL has officially announced cruises cancelled through October 31st. 
 

Saw a FB post from a cruise consultant who I have cruised with before. 
 

Expect others to follow!

I would imagine most will cancel on a quarter by quarter basis.

More important then keeping the people who cruise up to date are the investors. The investors have to know what the quarterly outlook is going to be and what the financial plan is.

[laumicmah]

I agree with @marshhawk and say mid August will be the next announcement. Also agree that cruising will not happen this year and maybe not even part of next year.

Edited July 29, 2020 by laumicmah

[PhillyFan33579]

1 hour ago, laumicmah said:

I agree with @marshhawk and say mid August will be the next announcement. Also agree that cruising will not happen this year and maybe not even part of next year.

I agree that cruising is not going to happen until next year and it likely won’t be the early part of the year. I understand why cruise lines are continuing to book cruises that even they know are not likely to happen, because they need any kind of income they can get to offset costs they still have to pay. However, I will not book any more cruises until cruising resumes in the states. 

[marshhawk]

We were scheduled to be on the Fantasy for those two weeks in October.  Got 7 emails from CCL telling me the ship was changed to the Sensation, and that we would be booked in comparable cabins.  We didn't need to call.   But we will be assigned our cabins by 8/23 and be notified at that time.

[Cruiseboy06]

18 minutes ago, marshhawk said:

We were scheduled to be on the Fantasy for those two weeks in October.  Got 7 emails from CCL telling me the ship was changed to the Sensation, and that we would be booked in comparable cabins.  We didn't need to call.   But we will be assigned our cabins by 8/23 and be notified at that time.

October cruises will be canceled as  well.  The writing is on the wall

[crewsweeper]

I'm guessing the big money is on cancelling through the end of the year.  But a big part of that isn't CV-19 in the US, it's where can they sail to?  Unless Caribbean islands or Bermuda open up to American travelers, there won't be anywhere to go.  As far as the Panorama itinerary goes, you do not want to be anywhere near Mexico with their infection of CV-19.