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If There's an Effective C19 vaccine, will Cruise Lines Require It


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On 7/17/2020 at 8:34 AM, hloakes said:

1. In 2011, the Supreme Court of the U.S. ruled drug makers cannot be sued for side effects from vaccines. How do you trust an industry that cannot be held responsible for their product?

 

2. The flu kills hundreds of thousands every year but we have not gone into this hysteria over it. I have never had a flu shot and don't plan to in the future. I am not saying that is the right decision for anyone else but I don't want to be pushed into it either.

 

3. Does a cruise company have the right to require a vaccine? Sure they do, but I have the right not to give them any of my money.

 

4. If it is not required by the cruise company but a port of call requires it, I will not get off there.I have cruised enough that I am not anxious to get off anymore. If it was not for my wife, I would probably stay on the ship more.  

 

5. Nor will I cruise if a mask is required. I find it difficult to breath and most of the masks I see and they way they are worn are ineffective anyway.

Just a quick fact check on #2. 

 

Per the CDC, in 2019 in the US, deaths attributed to the flu were 34,200. 

 

Covid deaths in the past 5 months are 141,000, or 28,200 per month, with first US documented death around Feb. 17th (originally thought 2/28 but on further research, now believed to be 2/27, although the Bay area may have had cases a week previous to the Seattle outbreak.)

 

Covid is killing as many people every 5 weeks as the flu did in an entire year.

Edited by cured
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1 hour ago, fandash said:

 it take years and years to determine side effects so to "just get on cruise"  is not something of importance to me. i agree about wanting to life life normally and i am ...as much as can at present but no thanks for vaccine for me

Well, normal to me is #1 being able to hug and kiss my grandson and have him spend overnights with me, I want to go inside to restaurant once the weather turns too cold for outdoor dining, I want to go to a movie.  I don't want to have to wear a mask indoors or sanitize my hands every two minutes.  A vaccine will permit me to be able to do those things.

I would trade all future cruises to be able to do what I've mentioned above.

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On 7/17/2020 at 7:26 AM, SRF said:

1.  WHY?   If you do not get the vaccine, YOU are at risk for the disease.  You are not a risk to other people.  As has been stated, they do not require Hep A, Hep B, Polio, Measles, etc vaccines to travel, so why COVID?

 

If some ports of call require it (and again, not real reason for them to do so either), then the cruise line will have to require it.

 

2.  Agreed

#1 - sort of. Creating herd immunity through vaccination is not only intended to protect the person vaccinated, it is intended to protect the vulnerable in our society; the cancer patients, the immunocompromised, the disabled, the babies who can't be vaccinated yet, and everyone else who cannot medically get the vaccine.  If you do not get vaccinated, you are absolutely a risk to other people, particularly the population where it is not medically safe to be vaccinated.

 

Vaccination was never meant to protect the anti-vaxxers, those who are able to get the vaccination but choose not to.  You need a certain level of vaccinated people to create that global immunity. When the anti-vaxxers choose not to get vaccinated, it lessens the number of people immunized, therefore lessening the protection of the herd immunity. Which is why we are starting to see outbreaks of previously contained diseases such as measles and whooping cough.

Edited by cured
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The Health Law Section of the New York State Bar Association recommends in a report that a Covid-19 vaccination be mandatory for all New Yorkers.  Apparently the individual States have the power to mandate a vaccine for everyone. 

 

"The Health Law Section said a rapid mass vaccination plan should be launched in New York as soon as a safe and viable vaccine becomes available, citing Jacobson v. Massachusetts, a 1905 U.S. Supreme Court case that upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws."

 

https://nysba.org/state-bar-associations-health-law-section-report-calls-for-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-standards-for-allocating-ventilators-and-personal-protective-equipment/

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On 7/17/2020 at 10:34 AM, hloakes said:

1. In 2011, the Supreme Court of the U.S. ruled drug makers cannot be sued for side effects from vaccines. How do you trust an industry that cannot be held responsible for their product?

 

2. The flu kills hundreds of thousands every year but we have not gone into this hysteria over it. I have never had a flu shot and don't plan to in the future. I am not saying that is the right decision for anyone else but I don't want to be pushed into it either.

 

3. Does a cruise company have the right to require a vaccine? Sure they do, but I have the right not to give them any of my money.

 

4. If it is not required by the cruise company but a port of call requires it, I will not get off there.I have cruised enough that I am not anxious to get off anymore. If it was not for my wife, I would probably stay on the ship more.  

 

5. Nor will I cruise if a mask is required. I find it difficult to breath and most of the masks I see and they way they are worn are ineffective anyway.

 

We are all absolutely entitled to our own opinions.  And yours illustrate the concern of many people.  I mean these different times and some cynicism is certainly warranted.  In terms of your points:

 

#1: Drug makers cannot be sued for side effects of treatments.  I think this is a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't situation.  There is also tremendous risk for a company to bring something to market.  Truth is, you never really know full impact for many years.  The question needs to be, do the benefits outweigh the risk?  If cases in the US and world continue to rise, overwhelm treatment capacity, and push death rates up - perceptions on risk of a taking a vaccine may change.

 

#2 I think someone has already pointed out Covid-19 is much more deadly the "regular" influenza.

 

#3 Completely agree, cruiselines have a right to require a vaccine and it is everyone's choice.  I will choose to take the vaccine (when available) and look forward to my next cruise.

 

#4 Again, completely agree, but I believe cruiselines will mandate it, as they need to protect their workforce as well.

 

#5 Masks are actually highly effective in curtailing the spread of the virus when worn by a majority of people.  I fully support the mandatory requirement for people to wear masks.  I know a lot of people are uncomfortable wearing masks and believe they can't breath.  Studies have shown that wearing an N95 mask results in no appreciable decrease in blood oxygen saturation.  I really believe this is, in a majority of cases, more an issue of minor claustrophobia.   

 

Whatever we all believe, this isn't just going to disappear and we do adopt behaviors that will decrease the spread of the virus.

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1 hour ago, cured said:

Just a quick fact check on #2. 

 

Per the CDC, in 2019 in the US, deaths attributed to the flu were 34,200. 

 

Covid deaths in the past 5 months are 141,000, or 28,200 per month, with first US documented death around Feb. 17th (originally thought 2/28 but on further research, now believed to be 2/27, although the Bay area may have had cases a week previous to the Seattle outbreak.)

 

Covid is killing as many people every 5 weeks as the flu did in an entire year.

But, how many people are infected with the flu every year?  You cannot compare the two by deaths  since there is a vaccine for flu, while not 100% effective, makes a difference.  If there was no vaccine, the death rate would be much higher due to secondary infections.   Also, I for one have had the flu 3 times but have never been tested.  Not everyone with the flu gets tested or even goes to the Dr.

 

This argues for a vaccine and for requiring it at least until herd immunity kicks in.

Edited by BND
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2 hours ago, cured said:

Just a quick fact check on #2. 

 

Per the CDC, in 2019 in the US, deaths attributed to the flu were 34,200. 

 

Covid deaths in the past 5 months are 141,000, or 28,200 per month, with first US documented death around Feb. 17th (originally thought 2/28 but on further research, now believed to be 2/27, although the Bay area may have had cases a week previous to the Seattle outbreak.)

 

Covid is killing as many people every 5 weeks as the flu did in an entire year.

 

For the 2017-2018 flu season, deaths were almost double that number at 61,000. That was also after they went back at it later and revised it down from 80,000+. Remember, that was for a disease with a vaccine available. I won't even get into there not being any incentives or reasons to push fake flu deaths.

 

 

If I was a cruise line executive, I would want no part in mandating a vaccine. At least not for everyone. Just from a timing aspect alone, by the time one reaches the general public, cruise lines would be in bankruptcy.

 

Not only that, but you would alienate a lot of people that don't want it, don't trust it, can't afford it, etc. Maybe they could mandate it on some high-risk individuals. Who knows. This isn't polio though. The virus has already showed it is less deadly than we thought, and is mutating. Mutating makes it harder to make an effective vaccine. Those who want the vaccine, are still free to get it if they are concerned.

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1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

 

 

Not only that, but you would alienate a lot of people that don't want it, don't trust it, can't afford it, etc. 

Best laugh of the day!  Can't afford what ?  People can afford to cruise but can't pay for a shot?  Besides, from what I've gathered the vaccine will be free - at least here in the US.

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1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

 

If I was a cruise line executive, I would want no part in mandating a vaccine. At least not for everyone. Just from a timing aspect alone, by the time one reaches the general public, cruise lines would be in bankruptcy.

 

Not only that, but you would alienate a lot of people that don't want it, don't trust it, can't afford it, etc. Maybe they could mandate it on some high-risk individuals. Who knows. This isn't polio though. The virus has already showed it is less deadly than we thought, and is mutating. Mutating makes it harder to make an effective vaccine. Those who want the vaccine, are still free to get it if they are concerned.

 

If I was a cruise line executive I would do whatever it took to placate CDC and other global health agencies so they can get back to sailing.  Read the recent advisory, CDC is not happy with cruise lines efforts to date.

 

Rather than alienating people believe mandating vaccine would actually boost confidence in cruising.  Casual travelers are afraid to fly and most likely afraid to cruise as well.  Diamond and Grand Princess memories still too vivid.  Die hards alone will not fill ships. 

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11 minutes ago, mek said:

Best laugh of the day!  Can't afford what ?  People can afford to cruise but can't pay for a shot?  Besides, from what I've gathered the vaccine will be free - at least here in the US.

 

I would have to be free if made mandatory by the States, which looks like it will probably be the case.

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If I was a cruise line executive, I would want no part in mandating a vaccine. At least not for everyone. Just from a timing aspect alone, by the time one reaches the general public, cruise lines would be in bankruptcy.

 

Not only that, but you would alienate a lot of people that don't want it, don't trust it, can't afford it, etc. Maybe they could mandate it on some high-risk individuals. Who knows. This isn't polio though. The virus has already showed it is less deadly than we thought, and is mutating. Mutating makes it harder to make an effective vaccine. Those who want the vaccine, are still free to get it if they are concerned.

 

Alienate the anti vaxxers? Without a vaccine and 70% of the population taking it things will never get back to near normal. The cruise lines will be in bankruptcy if people don’t take it. It would be in their interest to mandate it. It is flabbergasting that anyone who wants to cruise ever again would not voluntarily take a vaccine.

 

Like we have seen in the last few days large businesses mandating masks those businesses will mandate that their employees take a vaccine. Health care workers will have to take it. Students and teachers will be mandated to take it. So I am confident that over 70% of the population will be taking a vaccine whether mandated or voluntary when they become available.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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8 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

The point being is that the "normal" testing time for a vaccine is a decade or more (10 years, not 10 months). Any medicine, in a phase 3 trial should be done over a worldwide population of test subjects across a wide demographic with a wide variety of underlying conditions to ensure that the medicine is effective and safe. Not a young, healthy test population that would probably survive side effects or incidental corona infections. Also, noting that the government would consider a vaccine "effective" if it demonstrated antibodies in 50% of the test subjects. 

 

I thought they were testing across generations now.

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10 hours ago, fandash03 said:

yep i know it is being tested but my opinion is that noone would know side effects so my family and i chose not to get it

but i understand there will be loads that will do it

but again as i posted i dont think cruise lines will ask that it be mandatory anyway

So in short you want others to provide your herd immunity.  Not because you have an underlying issue but just because you are selfish.  It would appear you also choose your families choices.

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7 hours ago, cured said:

Just a quick fact check on #2. 

 

Per the CDC, in 2019 in the US, deaths attributed to the flu were 34,200. 

 

Covid deaths in the past 5 months are 141,000, or 28,200 per month, with first US documented death around Feb. 17th (originally thought 2/28 but on further research, now believed to be 2/27, although the Bay area may have had cases a week previous to the Seattle outbreak.)

 

Covid is killing as many people every 5 weeks as the flu did in an entire year.

Do you see the words United States anywhere in the posters comments? 

 

As per Medscape : The World Health Organization estimates that worldwide, annual influenza epidemics result in about 3-5 million cases of severe illness and about 250,000 to 500,000 deaths. [21] In the United States, individual cases of seasonal flu and flu-related deaths in adults are not reportable illnesses; consequently, mortality is estimated by using statistical models. [1]

 

https://www.medscape.com/answers/219557-3459/what-is-the-global-incidence-of-influenza

 

So based on the actual wording of the poster's post and not your perceived interpretation, the poster is 100% accurate.

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2 hours ago, mek said:

Best laugh of the day!  Can't afford what ?  People can afford to cruise but can't pay for a shot?  Besides, from what I've gathered the vaccine will be free - at least here in the US.

Nothing is free. Someone has to pay for it.

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2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Taxpayers -- which would be us. 

Do you receive medicare/medicade/VA benefits or will in the future?

 

I am always amused about people complaining about socialized gov't provided medical care.  Medicare/Medicade/VA is essentially that.

 

But when politicians talk about take about those type of programs, the people raise their arms.

 

How is providing covid vaccinations  for free different?

Edited by gatour
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10 hours ago, cured said:

Just a quick fact check on #2. 

 

Per the CDC, in 2019 in the US, deaths attributed to the flu were 34,200. 

 

Covid deaths in the past 5 months are 141,000, or 28,200 per month, with first US documented death around Feb. 17th (originally thought 2/28 but on further research, now believed to be 2/27, although the Bay area may have had cases a week previous to the Seattle outbreak.)

 

Covid is killing as many people every 5 weeks as the flu did in an entire year.

When I see people spewing ridicules flu death numbers compared to Covid I just move on. At this point a monkey could tell you that the covid death rate has exceeded the the flu death rate. Also the flu is seasonal. Covid has proven otherwise. As a matter of fact it seems to be accelerating in the Sunshine State. So much for the heat and the UV light killing it off.

Edited by Iamcruzin
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On 7/17/2020 at 7:00 AM, loman said:

I will be waving bon voyage from the pier ,  as i wont be the first in line for a vaccine .

i have never gotten a flu shot , so this one is just as un-appealing .

I can wait as i am not addicted to cruising , i prefer it over anything else , but i just wont go .

It will be a couple of years for me to step on another cruise ship ... Oasis class or nothing . 

i can book a very expensive suite with all the money i save not cruising for a while , lol .

 

Smart approach, let others test it out by the hundreds of millions.  Give the wide diversity of the human race someone will react negatively and the anti-vaccinators will have a field day and build the same FUD as the anti-mask.   

 

Darwin will also be in play as those that get it probably get thru the next few waves, those that are strong and healthy might also and the less healthy, with latent genetic and or immunity defects all die out.

 

Come 2025 or so, the world will be different and move alone with a few hundred million more dead.. give or take a little bit.

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4 hours ago, Computer Nerd said:

Nothing is free. Someone has to pay for it.

 Nobody will have to lay out cash to receive the shot -  just like the "free" flue shots Kroger and other drug stores make available to everyone each year. 

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59 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

When I see people spewing ridicules flu death numbers compared to Covid I just move on. At this point a monkey could tell you that the covid death rate has exceeded the the flu death rate. Also the flu is seasonal. Covid has proven otherwise. As a matter of fact it seems to be accelerating in the Sunshine State. So much for the heat and the UV light killing it off.

 

Obviously yes, anyone can tell that reported number A is higher than reported number B. Again, remember that flu has a vaccine available and tens of thousands of people still die from it every year. Remember, the fear with COVID is that "people are dying". The fear from people dying of flu is the only time we can say "well it's less". There's also not people dying from other causes and being reported as a flu death.

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2 hours ago, mek said:

 Nobody will have to lay out cash to receive the shot -  just like the "free" flue shots Kroger and other drug stores make available to everyone each year. 

I remember sometime during the 70's when my parents went for the swine flu shot that was being given out at the high school. I can see the same thing happening with this vaccine. 

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