NCL tells CDC all crew & passengers to be vaccinated, will HAL, X, Royal do the same?

[MarkWiltonM]

31 minutes ago, iceman93 said:

If all crew and passengers must be vaccinated, why are any other protocols or changes needed?  Why should it not be 100% capacity with no masks, full buffets, complete freedom for shore excursions on your own, etc.?

It's a good question. The CDC has already said fully vaccinated people "can gather indoors with fully vaccinated people without wearing a mask or staying 6 feet apart." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html

 

One issue may how cruise lines intend to verify that everyone has been vaccinated. I do think there's potential for a lot of fraud if, for example, you just have to upload or provide at departure a CDC vaccination card. Those can be printed on card stock from any printer and filled in with fake info that will be impossible to check. And that's just for U.S. citizens. If you have international travelers who knows what documentation they'll have to prove they've been vaccinated. 

[iceman93]

@MarkWiltonM, I wondered the same thing about people trying to cheat.  So if we can't trust people, then the cruise lines should just say something like "we will fully vaccinate our crew and highly encourage passengers to do the same", then institute all the other limitations.

 

For me and my family, we don't really care whether or not other people are vaccinated.  What will keep us off of cruise ships are changes to the vacation experience that we find seriously detrimental (such as having to wear a mask, put up with social distancing markers all over the place, having to listen to frequent audible reminders to "be safe", etc.).  If a 100% vaccine requirement is what it takes to eliminate all the other nonsense, then I'm all for it.  If not, and we're going to have to deal with it all anyway, then I don't see the point of a vaccine requirement.

[Heartgrove]

57 minutes ago, iceman93 said:

If all crew and passengers must be vaccinated, why are any other protocols or changes needed?  Why should it not be 100% capacity with no masks, full buffets, complete freedom for shore excursions on your own, etc.?

 

Because even a vaccinated person can be asymptomatic. All the vaccine does is to lessen the severity of sickness, if contracted. Latest data is showing that there is less chance for transmission but it is not down to 0%. There is also the Brazil variant and India variant of the virus to contend with that not much is known.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Heartgrove

[deliver42]

Whether they like it or not, that's probably the only way they'll be able to sail. If they don't like it, they can just stay docked or anchored as they have for this past year.

[sprockie]

2 hours ago, iceman93 said:

If all crew and passengers must be vaccinated, why are any other protocols or changes needed?  Why should it not be 100% capacity with no masks, full buffets, complete freedom for shore excursions on your own, etc.?

Because being vaccinated does not guarantee you will not get Covid.  The vaccine provides protection from being hospitalized with a serious case or dying from Covid.  The vaccine is not the be all and end all.  Social distancing, hand hygiene, masks etc  are still likely to be required.  Unless they decide to do testing before and during the cruise, there will be no way of knowing if covid is being spread amongst vaccinated passengers.

 

[fatcat04]

1 hour ago, sprockie said:

Because being vaccinated does not guarantee you will not get Covid.  The vaccine provides protection from being hospitalized with a serious case or dying from Covid.  The vaccine is not the be all and end all.  Social distancing, hand hygiene, masks etc  are still likely to be required.  Unless they decide to do testing before and during the cruise, there will be no way of knowing if covid is being spread amongst vaccinated passengers.

 

Actually...

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/04/cdc-data-suggests-vaccinated-dont-carry-cant-spread-virus.html

 

Obviously there will need to be more study and anything can happen but Dr. Walensky said this on Maddow just a few days ago:

 

"We`re vaccinating so very fast, our data from the CDC today suggests, you know, that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don`t get sick, and that it`s not just in the clinical trials but it`s also in real world data."

 

and:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html

“This study shows that our national vaccination efforts are working. The authorized mRNA COVID-19 vaccines provided early, substantial real-world protection against infection for our nation’s health care personnel, first responders, and other frontline essential workers,” said CDC Director Rochelle P. Walensky, MD, MPH. “These findings should offer hope to the millions of Americans receiving COVID-19 vaccines each day and to those who will have the opportunity to roll up their sleeves and get vaccinated in the weeks ahead. The authorized vaccines are the key tool that will help bring an end to this devastating pandemic.”

 

Again, I think masking is here to stay for the foreseeable future on all modes of transport and in the hospitality industry but this is the latest on this topic out of the CDC and is super encouraging. Vaccination is the path to breaking Covid's back. Just gotta get jabs in arms!!

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by fatcat04

[cruisegirl]

I wish the CDC would require vaccinations. They are sure full of other requirements. Why not this one? 

[Dothan1952]

Cruise lines that don't require full vaccination, all it will require is one outbreak ( with all the bad publicity that will follow)and they will fall in line.

[marpauly]

10 hours ago, Dothan1952 said:

Cruise lines that don't require full vaccination, all it will require is one outbreak ( with all the bad publicity that will follow)and they will fall in line.

This is what's going to happen...either you vaccinate 100% of those on the ship or have ships needing to turn around and be cleaned because of a Covid outbreak...heck even with the norovirus they had to turn around ships.

Now add that many places will require vaccines to visit and you end up with cruise ships that will end up running at 50% capacity, full covid guidelines and probably ending up with widespread Covid coming onboard cutting the cruises short. All this does is make these cruiseline being held responsible to return to port. 

Desantis and CDC may not obligate people to be vaccinated but it's such a headache that it might just be better business wise to do so?!

[D C]

17 hours ago, iceman93 said:

If all crew and passengers must be vaccinated, why are any other protocols or changes needed?  Why should it not be 100% capacity with no masks, full buffets, complete freedom for shore excursions on your own, etc.?

 

It should be that way.  A fully vaccinated ship is perfection.  We'll never hit that 100% vaccinated point anywhere else in society.  If there is one place where absolute normalcy should reign, it's on a fully vaccinated ship.  If not, there is no hope for normal in daily life.

 

16 hours ago, Heartgrove said:

 

Because even a vaccinated person can be asymptomatic. All the vaccine does is to lessen the severity of sickness, if contracted. Latest data is showing that there is less chance for transmission but it is not down to 0%. There is also the Brazil variant and India variant of the virus to contend with that not much is known.

 

 

 

The odds of a vaccinated person being infected and asymptomatic are very small according to each new study that is released.  Even then, we know there's a difference between testing positive and being contagious.  In the very remote chance that someone is vaccinated, positive, asymptomatic, and contagious, they would still need to seek out and spend meaningful time with one of the small percentage of people who are also susceptible after being vaccinated.   The odds of that happening are miniscule.   We'll never hit 0% and there is no practical need for that to be a goal. 

[kazu]

9 minutes ago, marpauly said:

This is what's going to happen...either you vaccinate 100% of those on the ship or have ships needing to turn around and be cleaned because of a Covid outbreak...heck even with the norovirus they had to turn around ships.

 

In regards to your comment on Norovirus and ships having to turn around.... While I have seen some ships return where the norovirus is severe, I’ve been on several cruises where there was Noro and the ship has never turned around.

 

I think the reaction with one covid case will be a lot different than a ship with one Noro case 😉 

[Horizon chaser 1957]

18 hours ago, MarkWiltonM said:

One issue may how cruise lines intend to verify that everyone has been vaccinated. I do think there's potential for a lot of fraud if, for example, you just have to upload or provide at departure a CDC vaccination card. Those can be printed on card stock from any printer and filled in with fake info that will be impossible to check. And that's just for U.S. citizens. If you have international travelers who knows what documentation they'll have to prove they've been vaccinated. 

The NCL proposal states that passengers must be fully vaccinated a MINIMUM of two weeks prior to sailing. This means they can require proof of full vaccination two weeks prior to sailing. This gives them time to ‘run the plates’ so to speak, and eliminate those with false CDC documents. It would also prevent the delay and hassle of having everyone digging out their cards and arguing reasons why they shouldn’t have to have one at embarkation.

[Mary229]

Del Rio was on Mad Money yesterday

 

https://youtu.be/9UFwC8lIXcY

[kangforpres]

I don't think I would want to cruise on a ship that did not have mandatory vaccination rules. Even If I'm going to vaccinated. If there's an outbreak onboard everyone's trip is ruined and it makes work so much harder for the crew.

 

-Paul

[marpauly]

9 hours ago, kazu said:

 

In regards to your comment on Norovirus and ships having to turn around.... While I have seen some ships return where the norovirus is severe, I’ve been on several cruises where there was Noro and the ship has never turned around.

 

I think the reaction with one covid case will be a lot different than a ship with one Noro case 😉 

Yes...i was talking about outbreaks...One case,even 10 case won't make a cruise ship turn around but many have had 200-300 cases....now noro doesn't attack the respiratory system which is way worst.

[kazu]

6 minutes ago, marpauly said:

Yes...i was talking about outbreaks...One case,even 10 case won't make a cruise ship turn around but many have had 200-300 cases....now noro doesn't attack the respiratory system which is way worst.

 

the only cruise where  I didn’t see a ship really “crack down” was Oceania.

on our HAL cruises, the crack down was obvious and we didn’t have that number of cases.  Noro is no fun and everyone would just play ball (just like covid) it can be licked.

 

Our captain on the Prinsendam now retired - Captain Gundersen announced that anyone who didn’t play ball would be put off in the next port.  He was not crossing the pond with covid.

It worked and by the way, several who had abused crew were put off.

 

Noro is easier to manage than covid IMO.  MInd you, everyone has to look out for everyone else 😉 That’s what any virus is about.

[jakers]

Who volunteers to be the first person to forge their vaccination paperwork, bring Covid onboard a ship, cause the cruise to be cancelled and returned to port? There is a very big difference legally between ignorance and fraud when it comes to a civil lawsuit. It is easy to forge a piece of paper but not so easy to create an email trail between you and a vaccination site. I not only have the CDC vaccination paperwork but I can pull up all the emails from making an appointment, receiving the vaccination, and the congratulation email once I was vaccinated. I wouldn't want to be the poor fool who forges the paperwork and gets caught. If you don't want to get vaccinated, STAY HOME! 

[cruisemom42]

On 4/5/2021 at 1:24 PM, idiebabe said:

You need to reread this!  It applies to normal Society social activities such as Restaurants, Theme Parks, Arenas, etc.

 

On 4/5/2021 at 1:27 PM, cruisemom42 said:

 

I just did re-read it. I still feel there is much that is open to interpretation. 

 

It appears that I was correct in my earlier statement.

 

DeSantis confirmed today that there would be no exception to his Executive Order for cruise lines.

 

"The governor, who signed an executive order forbidding Covid vaccine passports, said the cruise industry won’t get an exception. He’s adamant that public entities, along with the private sector, not require people show proof that they have been vaccinated."

 

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-suing-federal-government-cdc-to-allow-cruise-to-resume-sailing-desantis/2423966/

[oakridger]

I guess I won't be taking any cruises from Florida if his Executive Order stands up in court! (at least until the pandemic is "over" and not actively circulating the virus)

 

~Nancy

[idiebabe]

16 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

It appears that I was correct in my earlier statement.

 

DeSantis confirmed today that there would be no exception to his Executive Order for cruise lines.

 

"The governor, who signed an executive order forbidding Covid vaccine passports, said the cruise industry won’t get an exception. He’s adamant that public entities, along with the private sector, not require people show proof that they have been vaccinated."

 

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-suing-federal-government-cdc-to-allow-cruise-to-resume-sailing-desantis/2423966/

I wouldn't  be so quick to do the "I told you so" dance just yet.  Reread the EO again and how it applies to "everyday life" activities.  There is no mention of Cruise Ships in that EO but it does cover certain types of Businesses.  What you quoted is what the writers of the NBC article said and not what DeSantis said.  If you can post DeSantis saying it, then post it!  

 

DeSantis in a Tweet stated the EO is Temporary and will be sent to the State Legislature.  In addition, other States have joined Florida in their Ban of Vaccine Passports including Texas who wants the Port of Galveston to open for Cruise Ships. The Biden Administration now is not supporting Vaccine Passports (as stated by Jen Psaka) a few days ago saying they are against  Vaccine Passports due to Privacy Rights.  

 

DeSantis is working very hard with the Cruise Lines to get his Ports open.  They have now Sued the CDC and Federal Government in support of getting the Ports open knowing that NCL, RCL and Celebrity have Mandatory Vaccine requirements.  IMO, he won't interfere preventing the Cruise Lines to have that Policy. 

 

Too early for the "I told you so" Dance and if I'm wrong, enjoy yourself!   

[Tampa Girl]

On 4/5/2021 at 1:13 PM, cruisemom42 said:

 

While you are correct, the exact wording of his order is a bit more wide ranging and leaves open to question what would happen to a Florida resident who wants or needs a passport in order to travel (e.g., if required by an airline, cruise ship, border check, etc.), since the order specifically states that Florida entities are forbidden from providing them:

 

“No Florida government entity ... shall be permitted to issue vaccine passports, vaccine passes, or other standardized documentation for the purpose of certifying an individual’s COVID-19 vaccination status to a third party, or otherwise publish or share any individual’s COVID-19 vaccination record or similar health information.”

 

Two points:  "Entities" is referred to as "government entity".  Airlines, cruiselines, etc. may get substantial government assistance, but they are not government entities.  Secondly,  the phrase" for the purpose of certifying an individual's Covid-19 vaccination status to a third party" further narrows this highly questionable edit that our beloved governor has decided to spew forth.  What does he think that any other vaccination card is issued to do, other than to confirm to third parties that the card carrier is vaccinated  against a particular disease.  Such proof has for generations been required when one travels to certain counties and for children enrolling in schools.  

 

As for the idiotic statement that industries were closed down without proof of danger, one should remember that it was DeSantis who refused to allow the Zaandam to dock in FLL last March because of COVID.  It took our then president to point out that there were many Floridians aboard and he was not permitting his own residents to return home.  It was only then that DeSantis caved.  He obviously felt that there was sufficient evidence of proof of danger since, if I remember correctly, four people from the Zaandam died Covid and one, a crew member died in a Florida hospital.

 

DeSantis like to exude a lot of hot air for his own personal purposes.  He has no control over the cruiselines other than to forbid docking in his state.  He apparently has ignored that such a ban would likely hurt Florida more than the cruiselines.  

 

DeSantis's edicts should be taken with a substantial grain of salt.

[Edinburghgirl1]

 

I wouldn’t feel reassured about them accepting a piece of paper confirming you’ve been vaccinated when you can buy fake ones on the darknet  for as little as $150! Surely some form of digital QR code confirmation is better and less open to abuse! 

[Hlitner]

Lets take issues one at a time.  Governor Desantis's order is meaningless (in terms of cruises) since there are no cruises and the CDC has given no indication if and when there will ever be cruises out of US ports.  As to the Governor's no "vaccine passport order" there will likely be some legal issues as to whether he even has the authority to unilaterally impose his views on the private sector.  

 

As to buying a fake CDC vaccination form, it would likely be viewed as a felony under Federal Law.  And consider that the vaccines are Free but using a fraudulent Federal Form will cost you money for the form and perhaps a lot more if you are prosecuted.  And here is another interesting issue.  Say a person used a fraudulent vaccine form to go on a cruise and that person develops COVID during the cruise.  The CDC would be able to check the form (via the lot number) and if it was fraudulent the person could easily be held financially liable for damages to both the cruise line and all the passengers on the ship.  Sound like a lot of risk for simply avoiding a free shot.

 

Hank

 

 

[KirkNC]

That was my take, it’s rich that a Republican Governor (I.e. less government interference) would even issue such an order.  I don’t think it would hold up in court if he does.  What else does he want to control, how about the requirement that employees wash hands when going to the bathroom, or the no shirt, no shoes, no service some businesses follow, the list could go on.  Talk about government over reach.  

[albingirl]

31 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

That was my take, it’s rich that a Republican Governor (I.e. less government interference) would even issue such an order.  I don’t think it would hold up in court if he does.  What else does he want to control, how about the requirement that employees wash hands when going to the bathroom, or the no shirt, no shoes, no service some businesses follow, the list could go on.  Talk about government over reach.  

Well, I'm in Florida, and it's been refreshing to see how open the state is.  Without getting political, there are alot of states still under strict restrictions after over a year.  Businesses shut down, shops closed and so on.  I don't think our governor is overreaching on this; take a look at other states first before casting a stone at Desantis.  We've been vaccinated for months now, and our northern neighbors are still begging for a shot.  I hope all the cruise lines require a vaccine.  I don't want my cruise ruined because some sneak comes aboard with a fake record.  When I book a cruise, it isn't to stay on the ship.  If covid breaks out, we are all doomed to skip ports we have dearly wanted to visit.