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Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)


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6 minutes ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

The Grand Princess has turned back from Hawaii to California after a previous passenger died from Corona virus . Full story here :

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2020/03/04/a-second-princess-cruise-ship-is-affected-by-coronavirus-this-one-is-off-the-coast-of-california/#41ce29e83e2e

Already a long thread on it.

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On 3/4/2020 at 5:20 AM, Knickearth said:

I was on the grand returning the 21st of feb.  today March 4 we get an email from princess that there was a case onboard and we should stay indoors for 14 days.  This is like putting the horse before the cart.  

 

Yes, with a horse and cart, the horse does go before the cart !   How about  "putting the cart before the horse" ?  🙂  

Edited by Boatdrill
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1 hour ago, gatour said:

 

If the person did not go to the infirmary how would Princess or any cruise line know to investigate further.  I was on a cruise (different line) where I came down with a nasty cold, probably one of the worse once I have had as adult, never went to the infirmary, and walked off the ship with it.  They had no way to know that I had a cold.

 

What i'm referring to is that if the person was symptomatic onboard i find it hard to believe that in the current climate of hyper-sensitivity of coughing, sneezing, etc. that they didn't attend the medical centre given they were older and as such in the susceptible demographic.

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On 3/3/2020 at 10:31 PM, JennAngel9 said:

I don't think it's fair to say this is a "conspiracy theory"-- if I had been on that particular cruise I would appreciate seeing such a story posted here, just as a heads-up if to take it seriously if one starts experiencing serious respiratory/flu symptoms so you can take action accordingly and warn your local doctors that you had a *chance* of exposure.  

I do think some of the news articles on this case are sensationalist and it should be made clearer that there's no strong reason to believe the transmission occurred on the ship.  Presumably, being now 2 weeks out from that particular passenger's disembarkation, if it's isn't spreading around the ship now, it's a false alarm...but the best way to protect ourselves, our communities and our beloved cruise vacations is to all try to be aware of our exposures and act responsibly with the information we have (which includes sharing it with others who might find it helpful in a non-alarmist way).

Please remember this: one can carry the virus without showing any symptoms.  That's the scary part.  And, how accurate is the test result?  14-days post disembarkation, and, showing no symptoms -- do you still want to get tested to confirm that you are actually negative for the virus?  

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We are scheduled to sail on the Royal on Saturday.  I am a little nervous about getting stuck on the cruise, but we are still planning on going.  I wonder if Princess is being hit because more people who are over 50 go on Princess cruises than other cruises?  There may be people with the virus on other cruises but they are young and maybe don't have symptoms.  Also, if I were on a cruise before the Coronavirus, I would just stay in bed if I was sick.  Or I may even just go on with life hoping the fever or whatever would go away.  We rarely stay in bed for days when we are sick.  I know I would never think to go to the infirmary unless I was deathly ill.  Since it is effecting younger people differently without underlying health issues, maybe Princess is noticing it because older people sail Princess?  Younger people may have it on other ships, but they are not having symptoms which would lead them to get medical help?  I don't know why Princess is the only ship really being hit with this?  I know other ships have had issues, but not with quarantine.  

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1 hour ago, wrp96 said:

This virus also hides.  People can spread this virus while being asymptomatic for days.  

 

Actually, this has not been confirmed. Logically, a respiratory disease can only spread when there are symptoms like coughing and sneezing. 

 

Earlier reports of asymptomatic infection turned out to be wrong. Patients had been using medication to suppress flu symptoms. At some point, the patients must have become became symptomatic without remembering it.

 

One problem may be that a person may be infected with the common cold and COVID19. At an early stage of infection, the common cold may spread itself and COVID19. Then, the common cold subsides and the patient seems to be asymptomatic, as the body does not progress to more serious stages of COVID19.

 

It more be a good idea to get a vaccination for the common flu. It reduces the ability of COVID19 to hide, and reduces the complications if infection gets serious.

 

A lot of research is needed to understand this bug. Let's not spread alarmist news.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, MuddyDragon said:

Please remember this: one can carry the virus without showing any symptoms.  That's the scary part.  And, how accurate is the test result?  14-days post disembarkation, and, showing no symptoms -- do you still want to get tested to confirm that you are actually negative for the virus?  


The most recent (like 2 days ago) info from the WHO is that asymptomatic transmission is not a huge thing. 

 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/03/coronavirus-no-strong-evidence-of-asymptomatic-transmission.html

 

Speaking yesterday, Ashley Bloomfield, the director-general of health, said: "There's very clear data from China that people who don't have symptoms are not ones who spread the virus. The virus is spread through droplets spread by coughing and sneezing."

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4 hours ago, luckyinpa said:

 

but who will prevent you from getting it the day after you pass the test while you are at the store. so how often does everyone need to be tested. if you start thinking about this, theres almost no point to testing in a way.  unless you test everyone every day then successfully lock that person away for a while. 

Guess that's why they are only testing people with symptoms and yes, I am exposed to the "potential" of contracting something every day, because I get up in the morning, and leave my house daily and I travel in airports, hotels, restaurants, people everywhere. 

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There is another thread that was merged with a similar topic. Something about ' Advisory to people who disembarked Grand  Feb 21st'. However the original thread header still shows. You would think 'On the Grand' header would show if it had been merged.

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4 hours ago, luckyinpa said:

 

but who will prevent you from getting it the day after you pass the test while you are at the store. so how often does everyone need to be tested. if you start thinking about this, theres almost no point to testing in a way.  unless you test everyone every day then successfully lock that person away for a while. 

 

This is what they are doing. They trace the contacts of an infected persons. Check for symptoms. Test those with symptoms and follow up on the rest.

 

In Korea, they are identifying clusters of infection, and doing mass testing on the churches, offices etc. There's why the Korean numbers are rising so quickly. On the other hand, they are identifying the cases at an early stage. The death rate is only 0.6% of the infected versus 3% in other countries.

 

In British Columbia, we had done 1,500 tests on 1,012 cases to confirm 8 infections (0.8%). No community spread of COVID19. To date, there are 12 travel-related cases and still no community spread. You have to get ahead of the curve.

 

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15 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

This is what they are doing. They trace the contacts of an infected persons. Check for symptoms. Test those with symptoms and follow up on the rest.

 

In Korea, they are identifying clusters of infection, and doing mass testing on the churches, offices etc. There's why the Korean numbers are rising so quickly. On the other hand, they are identifying the cases at an early stage. The death rate is only 0.6% of the infected versus 3% in other countries.

 

In British Columbia, we had done 1,500 tests on 1,012 cases to confirm 8 infections (0.8%). No community spread of COVID19. To date, there are 12 travel-related cases and still no community spread. You have to get ahead of the curve.

 

 

Cruise ship like the Diamond and now Grand will be perfect place to spread, even on lock down, and remember the Grand wasn't locked down, the crew and passengers pretty much mingled for weeks together.

 

Now they only are going to test 100 or so, but what maybe thousand could be walking asymptomatic and or ,already mild sick and attribute it to cold, seasickness whatever, everyone wants to be in denial they got it, till they can't get out of bed and can't breath

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Put me down as skeptical of this notion that Princess had anything to do with the "On the Grand" thread being deleted. The cruise lines do purchase advertising space on this web site but as far as Princess "sponsoring" this forum, well, right now there are a couple of items above advertising a "Win a 7 Night Cruise on Royal Caribbean...." and I don't believe Princess would stand for that if they truly had influence with CC over this forum and it's contents.

 

If anyone wants to know why that thread has disappeared, just email the forum moderators and ask (community@cruisecritic.com). When I've done that in the past, I've always gotten fairly prompt and reasonable responses.

Edited by joepeka
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2 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

 

Now they only are going to test 100 or so, but what maybe thousand could be walking asymptomatic and or ,already mild sick and attribute it to cold, seasickness whatever, everyone wants to be in denial they got it, till they can't get out of bed and can't breath

 

The government has to play catchup. Do whatever it takes like China and Korea.

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1 hour ago, fourcruisin said:

Um, am I the only one totally appalled by the lady on the video constantly coughing into her hand?  OMG, have we not learned anything about the spread of diseases?  And this is why COVID-19 is spreading so rapidly. 

I noticed that too.  And they even said they had a cold. 

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Perhaps all cruise ships should require coughing passengers to quarantine in room for the time being. Every passenger during embarkation should have their temperature checked regardless of how they feel. Stop self service in the buffets, staff need to serve food. They have to step up their game big time. Cruise ships must have test kits stocked and ready on every ship. Airlift positive passengers off immediately.

 

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12 hours ago, gritsnc said:

With her coughing so much I guarantee she will be tested soon if she hasn't already. Good grief what a mess for the Princess cruise line!


So, did you notice she was coughing and covering mouth with her hand?   Guess they didn’t learn anything about coughing etiquette/not coughing in hand.   Nasty   Filthy behavior.
How about muster drill include a “show and tell” on how to properly cover up coughing (In the sleeve of arm, not in hand) and covering up sneezing?

Edited by Justalone
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are most passengers on the Grand still able to move freely about the ship ? - just the b2b's and passengers with symptoms asked to stay in cabins until testing and results are received ?

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To those who disembarked the Grand on 2/21/20, please read attached link.

This seems to be the merged thread.  I just read the same things here that I had read last night on the missing thread.

Good health to all.

Barbara

Edited by bcummin
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28 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

Perhaps all cruise ships should require coughing passengers to quarantine in room for the time being. Every passenger during embarkation should have their temperature checked regardless of how they feel. Stop self service in the buffets, staff need to serve food. They have to step up their game big time. Cruise ships must have test kits stocked and ready on every ship. Airlift positive passengers off immediately.

 

This is completely unreasonable and also not practical at all.  A cruise is a vacation, not a trip to a military state.  

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11 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

This is completely unreasonable and also not practical at all.  A cruise is a vacation, not a trip to a military state.  

 

Educate people to wear masks in public when having a cold, cough or feeling unwell.  We also need to educate people that anyone wearing a face mask is not a leper but being a responsible person. I saw some video of a person on the New Yok subway being drop kicked by someone for just wearing a mask.  

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2 hours ago, fourcruisin said:

Um, am I the only one totally appalled by the lady on the video constantly coughing into her hand?  OMG, have we not learned anything about the spread of diseases?  And this is why COVID-19 is spreading so rapidly. 

This terrible video was also posted on the Carnival board—not sure why—and I had the same reaction and commented on it there. Besides coughing into her hand multiple times, she laughed that they had been tested and “just had a cold” so no big deal.  They were only encouraged to spend more time in their cabin and not told they had to. Their other false security mistake is to think that if they have a cold, they cannot also get Covid-19 and will not quarantine accordingly.

Stupidity seems to be more contagious than the virus.

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2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, the chemical used, Virkon, and the method of use, fogging, is what the CDC recommends for sanitizing for noro, and I feel that they are some of the preeminent infectious disease epidemiologists in the world.  Not sure if you are referring to fogging outdoors, where environmental conditions would mitigate against proper concentration on surfaces.

 

As you say, I'm not an infectious disease doctor either, but from what I've learned, viruses like noro, which are non-enveloped, are harder to kill than enveloped ones like covid-19.

I am referring to the fogging machines. 

 

There are many things in medicine that we have to consider. Does Virkon kill it in a laboratory setting? If so, what concentration and duration does exposure to Virkon have to be. How much remains after disinfection? 95%? 99%? 99.9%? What surfaces is it efficacious on? In statistics, we have perfect use vs real world use. So what are the rates of both? So many questions to be answered.

 

With all due respect, medicine is a lot more complicated than: me spray germ. 

 

We know so little about covid 19. That's what makes doctors nervous. And a YUGE proportion of doctors in the states are older than the age of 55 yo (~40%). 

Edited by Farts
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19 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

This terrible video was also posted on the Carnival board—not sure why—and I had the same reaction and commented on it there. Besides coughing into her hand multiple times, she laughed that they had been tested and “just had a cold” so no big deal.  They were only encouraged to spend more time in their cabin and not told they had to. Their other false security mistake is to think that if they have a cold, they cannot also get Covid-19 and will not quarantine accordingly.

Stupidity seems to be more contagious than the virus.

Regarding those two ladies they did go to the infirmary however they had not been tested for covid 19 no one at that point had on their last video...I hope they do test them...the one on the left as you watch has really got something. "Hot Chicken" was a hot mess! But appreciate someone reporting from the ship.

Edited by kathy49
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  • CCHelp changed the title to Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)
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