Cruise ship vs airplane

[iggyc]

Read an article that most people aren’t wearing masks on planes or social distancing. That rules are not enforced. Funny how the CDC pounced on cruise lines but the airlines are just business as usual. 

[NW Pacific]

Think some airlines requiring masks

[Outerdog]

1 hour ago, iggyc said:

That rules are not enforced.

 

Why make a claim like that and not post a link to the "article".

 

Sounds like more facebook nonsense to me.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, iggyc said:

Read an article that most people aren’t wearing masks on planes or social distancing. That rules are not enforced. Funny how the CDC pounced on cruise lines but the airlines are just business as usual. 

 

7 hours ago, NW Pacific said:

Think some airlines requiring masks

 

7 hours ago, Outerdog said:

 

Why make a claim like that and not post a link to the "article".

 

Sounds like more facebook nonsense to me.

My personal experience has been with United Airlines about a month ago.  Took 3 flights from Brownsville, TX to Maine.  On all flights the gate agents announced the requirement to wear a face covering during flight, and the flight attendants also announced this during the safety briefing.  However, on all flights, I observed people who did not wear face coverings (one was two seats away across the aisle), and the flight attendants made no effort to offer the airline's masks (as announced), nor to question the passengers as to why they weren't wearing a mask, or to make any attempt to enforce the "rule".

 

As for "social distancing", the only concession I saw to this was that they now load the plane from the back to the front, rather than by group number.  The first flight was a small regional jet, and was at about 15% capacity, so everyone spread out.  The second flight, Houston to Dulles, was a 737, but it appeared that all center seats were not sold.  The third flight, another small regional jet was at 44 of 49 seats filled.  It appears to me that "social distancing" is only practiced by the airline when demand for the flight does not outweigh the requirement.  Embarkation and disembarkation was slowed to some extent, but certainly 6 feet was not followed.

[jskinsd]

We all know that nobody flies sick.🤞

[iggyc]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/travel/coronavirus-flying-face-masks.html
 

here is your link

[beerman2]

22 minutes ago, iggyc said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/travel/coronavirus-flying-face-masks.html
 

here is your link

And when cruising begins again even though masks may be required, you will see many NOT conforming to the guidelines. Highly doubt the cruiselines will confront those that don't. Whether it's masks, social Distancing or any other policy enforcement will be lax.

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

And when cruising begins again even though masks may be required, you will see many NOT conforming to the guidelines. Highly doubt the cruiselines will confront those that don't. Whether it's masks, social Distancing or any other policy enforcement will be lax.

If all the people on CC who have said they won't cruise if a mask is required (myself included) is a representative sample of how the rest of the cruising world feels about masks, the only people on the ships when things resume are the ones who don't mind wearing them.  Right?

 

I agree, mask wearing on a cruise won't be enforced... 

[drvmywifecrzy]

Won't be enforced.  Not like they are going make you walk the plank

[njhorseman]

1 minute ago, drvmywifecrzy said:

Won't be enforced.  Not like they are going make you walk the plank

Don't be so sure. The cruise line has the right to disembark you for violating any rules .

Read Section 4. Carrier's Rules and Regulations of NCL's Guest Ticket Contract.  https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/NCL_Guest_Ticket_Contract_041818.pdf

[BirdTravels]

We flew round trip cross country last week. People had masks when they boarded. Throughout the long flight, the flight attendants were constantly reminding people to wear their masks as they stood waiting for the lavs next to seated passengers. Some refuses to do it.  Some had their masks on long enough to Use the lav, but let them hang lose while seated. Even flight attendants had masks hanging from their ears long after they finished taking a sip of water. 
 

I expect nothing more on a cruise ship. I will wear a mask to go cruising again, because that will be the new norm for the next several years. As I wore a mask to make our trip last week. As I do if I want to go to work. 

[seaman11]

45 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

We flew round trip cross country last week. People had masks when they boarded. Throughout the long flight, the flight attendants were constantly reminding people to wear their masks as they stood waiting for the lavs next to seated passengers. Some refuses to do it.  Some had their masks on long enough to Use the lav, but let them hang lose while seated. Even flight attendants had masks hanging from their ears long after they finished taking a sip of water. 
 

I expect nothing more on a cruise ship. I will wear a mask to go cruising again, because that will be the new norm for the next several years. As I wore a mask to make our trip last week. As I do if I want to go to work. 

While dining in nc inside resturants no one i saw had a mask on except the hostess at one place. So no i dont think it will be the new norm for years. 

[SNJCruisers]

3 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

 

I expect nothing more on a cruise ship. I will wear a mask to go cruising again, because that will be the new norm for the next several years. As I wore a mask to make our trip last week. As I do if I want to go to work. 

That is pure speculation assuming that wearing a mask "will be the new norm for several years". Will it still be required a year from now if a vaccine has been developed?

[CruiseMH]

11 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

that will be the new norm for the next several years.

 

For sure not. There are mnay parts of the world where the number of infected people is going down fast.I am sure that at the end of the year or latest Feb 2021 there will be almost no cases anymore in Europe,so there won`t be any requirement to wear a mask anymore. I think that within this year and maybe Jan 2021 there will be a requirement to wear a mask in planes and on cruises, but definitely not for the next several years.

[4774Papa]

2 hours ago, CruiseMH said:

 

For sure not. There are mnay parts of the world where the number of infected people is going down fast.I am sure that at the end of the year or latest Feb 2021 there will be almost no cases anymore in Europe,so there won`t be any requirement to wear a mask anymore. I think that within this year and maybe Jan 2021 there will be a requirement to wear a mask in planes and on cruises, but definitely not for the next several years.

I have read a lot about the coronavirus in the past few months.   One concensus from experts seems to be that wearing a mask does little to protect the individual wearing the mask from the virus.  However, what is somewhat effective is that a Coronavirus sick person wearing a mask does reduce the risk of spreading to others.   Further, since testing doesn't always discover symptomatic carriers, everyone wearing a mask is a good policy.

 

As time passes, more people will contract the virus and either some form of herd immunity or a vaccine will make a difference.  Due to the low fatality rates, even for Seniors with no underlying conditions, at some point in the future, people will be more likely to take the risk of travel.  It will be interesting to see how government's react in the future. 

[pmd98052]

16 hours ago, drvmywifecrzy said:

Won't be enforced.  Not like they are going make you walk the plank

 

I would imagine you'd have to pretend to be willing to wear a mask to even board. I doubt they would let anyone on who isn't wearing one and they'll likely provide them. Once on the ship I agree but are people really going to sign forms that they'll wear masks, wear them to be allowed on the ship, and then refuse to wear them once at sea? 

[mking8288]

Waiting for the cruise lines / industry to detailed and explain the ship's HVAC system, changes being considered/made and modified - on changing and reversing (negative) air flow to minimize airborne infectious illness from being spread.  For comparison, here is a detailed graphic one that is available from Air China, they fly globally and use mainly Boeing widebody jets on long-haul & international routes, especially those to/from the Americas. 

https://www.airchina.us/US/GB/promotion/Passengers

 

We can be certain that other carriers are doing the same, similar or elevated standards to keep their fleet of aircrafts clean, safe and peace-of-mind for the flying public ... and should/need to promote that, to re-establish confidence for travelers.  "... aircraft cabin air is replaced every 2 to 3 minutes, or 20 to 30 times per hour."  Time for NCL and the cruise industry to step up to the home plate. 

 

Our resident "chief" from Maine/at sea can probably give us here on CC a good look to review & comment on the system ... any ex/Boeing and/or AirBus engineers or familiarity with HVAC, feel free to share your thoughts.  

[chengkp75]

Here is my latest, I think, description of the AC systems on cruise ships:

 

As for negative airflow, I assume you mean negative pressure, and that is not going to happen in cabins, as the positive pressure is there for SOLAS reasons, as explained above.  To date, there is no known indication that covid virus can travel in sufficient quantities the long distances involved with a ship's AC ducting system.  Think about how far it has to go.  Across the cabin or restaurant to the return louver, then probably 100-200 feet in the return duct, then through the filter and air handler, and then 100-200 feet through the supply duct, and then across the cabin or restaurant to the person.  And, the airflow is so low, that droplets will tend to fall out quickly, especially during the transit across the room to/from the louvers.  I've seen that NCL has committed to installing HEPA filters in their air handlers, and while this will undoubtedly make all the air on the ship "cleaner", I have my doubts that it will do anything for actual covid remediation.  To my knowledge, no one has studied to see if there is a significant viral load entering the air handler where the filter is, so if there is no viral load entering the filter, it is easy to say the filter is doing a fine job by testing the viral load leaving the filter and finding it very low.  But there was none there to start with.

 

Aircraft have long used HEPA filters, they are almost universal on planes.  Increasing the "turn over rate" (the number of times the air is exchanged) for a plane is simple and costs very little since the cooling agent is the outside air at altitude.  The temperature outside is colder than inside.  Ships and buildings need to use energy to compress refrigerants to have them cool interior air to levels below the outside air, since you want the inside air to be cooler than the outside air.  This is why ships and buildings only exchange 20% of the volume every hour, not 2-3 times like an airplane.  This reduces cooling costs by about 60-80%.

[BirdTravels]

19 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

That is pure speculation assuming that wearing a mask "will be the new norm for several years". Will it still be required a year from now if a vaccine has been developed?

That’s the point. There won’t be a viable vaccine available in sufficient quantity to make a difference. When you take a trusted process to develop a vaccine that should take 10 years and short cut it to 10 months, there will be many false starts. A phase 3 human trial should be across a worldwide diverse crosscut of the population,,, not a limited number of success-oriented candidates. Believe the fantasies if you must. I will only believe it once COVID is eradicated. 

[Love my butler]

22 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

That’s the point. There won’t be a viable vaccine available in sufficient quantity to make a difference. When you take a trusted process to develop a vaccine that should take 10 years and short cut it to 10 months, there will be many false starts. A phase 3 human trial should be across a worldwide diverse crosscut of the population,,, not a limited number of success-oriented candidates. Believe the fantasies if you must. I will only believe it once COVID is eradicated. 

You do realize the common flu vaccine is not very effective right?

[BirdTravels]

6 hours ago, Love my butler said:

You do realize the common flu vaccine is not very effective right?

Yes. The flu vaccine this year was very ineffective. My entire team went down twice for both of the major strains of the flu when someone came to work sick early in the year. Almost all had got their flu shot. 

 

I was responding to all of the people who believe in the fantasy that a cure-all vaccine can be developed in 10 months (vs. the 10 years it normally takes to develop a vaccine). And once there is a quick-to-market vaccine, the world will be all back to normal.  Ain't going to happen... and COVID will probably not be eradicated in my lifetime, so I am content to sail with a mask (a N95 respirator that provides a little protection for me vs. the torn up pillowcase some people wear). 

[zdcatc12]

On 6/12/2020 at 5:19 AM, chengkp75 said:

 It appears to me that "social distancing" is only practiced by the airline when demand for the flight does not outweigh the requirement.

Though Delta has promised that they will not sell any middle seats in Coach and half of the seats in First class for any flights before September 30, however, as a family you may request them.

 

On 6/13/2020 at 4:58 PM, Love my butler said:

You do realize the common flu vaccine is not very effective right?

It depends on the year. They have to try and figure out ahead of time the strains that will be most prevelant for the year. Sometimes they get right, sometimes they get it wrong.

[SeaHunt]

Sounds like United Airlines is getting tougher:

 

"United Airlines is stepping up its mask policy enforcement, saying Monday that all passengers will be required to wear masks per its existing policy. That reiterates the rules the carrier already has on the books, but now those who refuse will face real consequences.

 

Beginning June 18, any passenger who does not wear a mask while traveling on United will be placed on the airline’s restriction list and may be barred from flying with the carrier again for a period of time that will be determined by the company after a “comprehensive incident review.”

 

United has technically required passengers to wear masks onboard since May 4, but it and several other U.S. carriers had reportedly advised crews not to be heavy-handed in enforcing the policy and risk an in-flight incident with a passenger that refused to comply.

 

Now, United seems ready to bring down the hammer on unmasked flyers.

 

“Every reputable heath institution says wearing a mask is one of the most effective things people can do to protect others from contracting COVID-19, especially in places like an aircraft where social distancing is a challenge,” Toby Enqvist, United’s chief customer officer said in a statement. “Today’s announcement is an unmistakable signal that we’re prepared to take serious steps, if necessary, to protect our customers and crew.”

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-mask-flying-ban/

[NutsAboutGolf]

 

A few airlines are blocking middle seats but as far as United, I was on a flight yesterday, you didn't have to wear mask if you said you had medical conditions without any questions asked.  Also to my surprise, no one took temperatures, while yes you may not have any symptoms however a fever is the most common one.  Also, do we really want people boarding planes with a fever even if it's not Covid? 

[cruisequeen4ever]

I think it’s messed up that cruise lines are held to a higher standard than airplanes and hotels. I understand it’s a floating community that’s isolated while at sea, but still, an airplane can be isolated in the air above the ocean, and airplanes are far dirtier and germier than cruise ships IMO. Hotels simply don’t seem to track because they usually don’t know if a customer has been sick in their room.